water pump

[Hein Reedijk]

I've just returned after a holiday, a trip to the Czech republic, with wife and kids in my flavia berlina (1st series). Unfortunately, the water pump started leaking, eventually in an alarming tempo. At last I had to refill my radiator with 1,5 liter of water every 100km. Just made it home!
My water pump was a reconditioned one, with a new seal and new bearings. It has lasted less than 10.000km.
I have now dismantled it:
The rotor is badly scored, and the bearings are scrap. Surprisingly the seal looks like new (see photo)! This seal looks like a modern one; could it be that the original Lancia seal had a larger contact area? Is this seal still available?
I have dismantled two other old scrappy pumps (very difficult to get the axle out of the rotor). I managed to flatten the least damaged rotor, as you can see on one of the photographs. Has anybody advise? Availability of a new seal?

[gcarenini]

Hi Hein,

would you please send me the dimension of the non original seal that you dismantled. Here in Italy is quite common to repair these pumps using some FIAT seal that is quite easy to find on the market (I have some pieces of it), but I need to know if the seat is the same of yours.
I'm actually abroad but, next week I'll be able to send you some pics.

Kind regards

Giovanni

[Hein Reedijk]

Hello Giovanni,

Thanks for your reply. The outer diameter of the seal is 36,5 mm on the bearing side, and 32,5 mm on the rotor side. Inner diameter: 17 mm.
There is a number on the back of the seal: "5". No other numbers.

Regards, Hein.

[gcarenini]

Hello Hein,
when I'll back home, I'll check and I'll send you some info and pics.
Kind regards

Giovanni

[gcarenini]

Hello Hein,
also the seal that I've mentioned have a diameter of 36,5mm then you can use it without any problem. In the attachment you can find a pic of the modified pump and two pics of the seal. Due to the fact that I have only one piece and I need it, tomorrow I'll try to find another one for you. Please send me by private message your postal address and I'll send it to you.
Kind regards

Giovanni

[Hein Reedijk]

Hello Giovanni,

I've sent you a PM. Thanks a lot, also for the pictures. This seal looks a lot more sturdy!

[Hein Reedijk]

I have reassembled my water pump. Giovanni has sent me a new seal. On ebay one can find the same seals, for example from a Fiat 127. They cost only a few euro's. The seal will not fit in all the pump housings: I attached a photo of a housing with an extra groove; the seal can not 'sink' enough in this housing. (The housing could me machined though.) Luckily I had another old pump in which the seal fitted perfectly. The bearings are of the 6201RS type: 12 x 32 x 10mm.

[LanciaFin]

Time to continue this old topic. I have this Fiat-seal, and have my doubts at installing it to my pump. At least it looks VERY tight fit between the impeller and the bearing:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5 ... hoto%2cJPG
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5 ... hoto%2cJPG
To my eye, installing this would need moving the bearing further from the impeller, and preferably installing some kind of shim between the outer track of the bearing and the seal, to prevent the latter from "sinking" into the pump. In the pictures I have pressed the seal all the way to bottom, and I think that would result too much pressure between the seal and impeller, causing both to wear prematurely.

I think my pump body is still original (I suppose the bodies Hein pictured above have already been machined for non-original seals - of course I could be wrong as my water pump is the only Flavia-pump I have ever had in my hands), and it had some kind of more modern seal on it (the batteries of my camera died before I could take a picture.) Sadly, the markings on the seal have mostly gone, but I suppose it is a seal for some motorcycle engine. Body diameter 30mm, shaft diameter 16mm. Ideally a similar seal should be found, but it is difficult, as the dimensions are rarely mentioned in seal catalogs. So far I have learned that some Honda- and Kawasaki-seals are close, but just a mm or two too small.

[LanciaFin]

Ok, I decided that the Fiat-seal is the way to go, as it seemed to be too difficult to source a directly fitting one. Had the pump machined and started assembling today.

Broke the new seal when installing the inner bearing ?tt? (I installed the seal first to determine the correct placing for inner bearing.) Anyway, I moved the inner bearing 2mm away from the seal with shims and shorter spacer, so the space in not an issue any more. Time to find a new seal now.

[LanciaFin]

Finished, finally. I fabricated a brass spacer between the outer track of the bearing and the seal (yes, made leak holes too!), because these new seals seemed to be slightly smaller than the earlier ones, needing much less effort to press into the pump body. Permatex Form-A-Gasket nr. 3 was used between the seal and body, slow drying, but it has plenty of time to settle.