Looking at buying a Beta Coupe Vx

[Andrew Holmes]

Hi there,

I'l looking at buying a 1985 Beta Coupe Vx and would appreciate some answers to a few questions.

First off, just how much financial trouble am I going to get into if I buy this car? I always tell myself to be sensible, buy a Toyota Corolla, but I always end up with something a bit unusual. My biggest worry is finding parts - realistically am I going to be ordering some exotic part made of pure unobtainium from far away with a two week delivery time every other month? I realise that all cars are different and have different service histories but just a rough estimate on how often things go wrong, and how expensive they are to fix, would be nice.

Also would I be better of going for a 2000ie over the volumex? I figured there is less to go wrong with a carburetor than fuel injection (well, easier to fix anyway as I'm not relying on dodgy Italian electrics), even with the supercharger. The 2000ie is in better body condition but the interior needs a lot of work, and I've got no idea where to find seats etc (the whole back seat is missing). The body on the Vx is a bit rough but all complete (even the hard-to-find rear wing is there in one piece!) and I could easily get the rust removed and repainted (brother is a car painter) and the asking price is a lot cheaper.

And lastly, what are the typical things to look out for on a Beta? Rust in the rear suspension turrets is about all I know (along with the dodgy oil dip-stick).

Basically I really like the car (always have liked Lancias) but they are so rare here in New Zealand I feel I'm setting myself up for a LOT of touble if I buy it... I still remember how long it took to find a head gaskit for my Fiat 128, and then how much it cost when I finally did - buying an old Italian supercharged engine just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen

So go ahead, try and talk me out of it because my heart has already decided and my head is a bit weak when it comes to these things...

Cheers,
Andrew

P.S If I bought it I would use it roughly every three days or so as I commute to work on my motorbike. I'd use it more on the weekends and going shopping etc during the week with the occasional long run about once a month further up the country

[graham]

Hi Andrew

Firstly, I wouldnt dream of talking you out of buying one.!

you dont mention if either/both cars are runners , but if the Volumex is 'complete' that might be the better option - in the UK we are pretty ok for parts but wouldnt want to comment on how it is in NZ.
Your right about the struts and there is plenty more to look at !. Rather than listing here, theres some general advice on Omicrons pages that would help you (link below). I've only ever had standard carb models but there are plenty of 2000IE & Volumex owners on betaboyz (www.betaboyz.co.uk) who would know a bit more about the pros and cons of supercharging versus injection.

http://www.omicron.uk.com/lanciacentral ... uying.html

cheers
G

ps. ignore that voice that keeps suggesting Toyota

[Todd Drysdale]

Hi Andrew,
I would definitely go for the Beta. They really are great cars once they are sorted out. I have had a 77 Coupe since 1990 and just finished a road trip from Toronto to California and back in it. (@ 9000km)
The only problems I have with it and other Lancias is when they sit too long and not get used. If you have to rely on a garage to do the work it requires, then that will be time consuming and expensive. Unless there is a specialist near you, most garages will not be familiar with the peculiarities of Betas. I have both carb and fuel injection experience and I would not worry about the L-jet Bosch FI on 2L Betas. Its actually quite simple to understand. Things to look out for by now are cracked injector lines from the injector rail to the injectors and the Bosch electrical connections crack and break easily which makes for bad electrical connections. The dual relays can go bad but are easy to find. Every single Beta Ive looked at or bought has had some kind of fire, either electrical or fuel related. Where the fuel hard lines come through the fire wall, the lines run very close to the exhaust manifold and if the rubber line is old that could be a problem.
Vx cars were never imported to North America so, I'm not sure how reliable they are. As far as parts go, mechanical parts dont seem too hard to find in the US or England. However I,m finding original shocks hard to find. The last 2 sets I've bought were re-builds. I find interior bits too be hard to find. Things like nice , un-cracked door panels or dashes are hard to find. The seats can be re-covered. I just had my Zagatos re-done in leather from an ex-Recaro employee in Germany and they are excellent.
The worst parts for rust are the rear shock towers, the rocker panel front and rear, and the area where the engine sub frame bolts up to the core-support under the rad. They always rust there and are hard to fix.
If it has a sun-roof try to blow through the drains to make sure they dont get plugged up. All the bad areas are results of double and triple layers of steel spot welded together with little or no corrosion protection between the layers. If the car seems solid in those areas than its a good solid car, but if rust is very apparent on the outside it will be doubly bad once you cut in to her. But dont let all that deterr you.
Go get it.
Todd

[Paul Duncan]

Hi Andrew,

is it the one on trademe? It looks pretty ropey to me, there seems to be a lot of rust in it. I thought about buying it for spares for mine. If it's not that one I'd just make sure you get a tidy one with a bit of documented history, and one that's been used on a reasonably regularly basis. Email me at lpduncan@xtra.co.nz, and I'll give you my number we can have a chat, if you're in CHC you can have a look at mine, but it's never coming up for sale sorry.

Paul

[alan cooper]

as regards the ie vs vx thing in real terms the ie is probably the better car eager and more free revving and a lot more economical the vx however feels more special with that torquey low speed pull it cruises better due to the higher gearing (although you can achieve that with a vx box in an ie) looks better with the deep front spoiler and has much nicer interior cloth trim I often think that the ie cloth looks and feels low rent

[Paul Duncan]

Yes I agree the VX is the nicer looking, I'm not sure why but all the ie's I've seen in NZ have the front spoiler, I've seen even fewr ie's than VX's here which is strange. I know of 9 VX's in NZ although I'm sure there are more.

[Andrew Holmes]

Hi Paul,

Yes, the Vx is the one on trademe. You reckon I'm setting myself up for a fall with that car? The rust I'm not so worried about (but I will look at it with my brother as he's the one who will have to fix the rust and repaint it, he's done loads of old cars, Valient Chargers etc so knows all about hidden rust!) as I thought the later ones had a fully galvanised chassis? Quite hard to tell in the photos but looks like under the doors and around boot edge. You're probably right, if you can see rust on the outside there is twice as much on the inside...

For those that don't know trademe here is a link to the car:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 616875.htm

The thing that worries me more is the milage, nearly 200,000kms which might mean pistons, rings etc which will be hard to come by.

Graham, don't worry about me ignoring the Toyota voice, I've managed to ignore it for every car I've bought! I only think about it when I'm underneath a car, surrounded by tools with oil dripping in my hair and skinning my knuckles on some bolt that hasn't been removed in 20 years, that's when the voice is loudest...

Todd, you're starting to scare me with fire stories...

Thanks for the feedback guys, you're making the car sound good (if not that particular car) although you're all biased so I shouldn't believe you at all

Cheers,
Andrew

P.S. Paul, unfortunately I live in Auckland (about a five minute walk from that car actually!) so can't stand around drooling over your car. Who knows, what ever I end up getting I might shoot down and visit you!

[Paul Duncan]

Andrew, I'm guessing you've been for a look if you're so close, that drivers door looks pretty rough, along with the boot lid. I think it's worth it for the engine alone, I had the engine done on mine about three years ago, at 190 000 k's, and really all they did was seals and bearings, all easy to get I think. I also had the rust in the bottoms of both doors, a little in each sill, and in the wells of the boot cut out, five new tires and almost $6000 later, it's pretty tidy but by no means a minter.

You're more than welcome to come for a look, I'm also restoring a Fulvia coupe (just started), and there's a lot of great info on this site.

Good luck with the car if you go ahead with it.

[Paul Duncan]

The second VX that's on trademe now would be a better car.

[Andrew Holmes]

Yeah, I saw that one, it does look good!

But $6800 is a bit over my budget right now.

I have gone and looked at the 2000ie coupe (this one: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 774400.htm )

It has been raced about 700km if I'm reading the log book right and has over $4000 in receipts for the engine alone (a rebuild, it has not been modified apart from a pod airfilter), it has had a bit of rust in the boot removed (nicely done welding and repaint) but is otherwise really good body wise, no rust in sight (just don't like those scoops on the sides! They have ducting inside to cool the rear brakes). The biggest problem is the missing interior, I can get front seats, and all the plastics for dash and centre console but can't find any rear seats for a coupe. As for legality it needs new tyres (racing tyres fitted) then it should pass a warrent. Rego is on hold.

I'm still not sure though, it could be a bit of work cleaning up the interior, it might be a better idea to wait for a more complete car to come along. How often do they pop up in NZ? One nice thing about that 2000ie is that it comes with an HPE ie as a parts car.

Basically my budget is $5000, any more than that and I have to borrow money (if it weren't for my "voice of reason" (my fiancé) I'd probably be buying that other Vx already with a loan!) and having driven an injected model I'm not too fussed about getting a Vx (although I love that torque!) as the injected engine is still pretty strong.

So I could buy something like this and spend a few dollars sorting it out, or wait for a better one in my budget to come along. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Andrew