synthetic oil leaks

[Andy]

When I bought my 1974 coupe, one of the first things I did, thinking that this would be a great preservation measure, was to change the engine oil for a fully synthetic type. Very quickly, my nice clean engine became coated in oil as the gaskets, which are probably original on this low-mileage car, were no match for the penetrating properties of the new oil. Wish I'd known that earlier...
Will the gaskets now be forever unable to seal the engine, even if I revert to mineral or semi-synthetic oil?
The main leaks seem to come from the cam-box cover gaskets and the sump gasket. I have couple of new gaskets for the cam-box covers, which I will now change since that looks fairly simple, but changing the sump gasket doesn't look like fun, so I'd rather avoid that if I can.
Also, is it vital to get my hands on a torque wrench to re-tighten the cam-box covers, or can I just tighten them evenly without using excessive force? (I noticed that I was able to undo all four cover bolts by hand with very little effort, and I'm not the Incredible Hulk).
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Andy

[Guy McDougall]

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear of your predicament. I haven't a clue whether reverting to the correct SAE 20W/50 oil (don't use synthetic) will fix part of your problem, but the cambox covers need to be tightened very gingerly, as the threads are machined into the aluminium camboxes, and although the outside knurled nut looks huge it's a small thread on the inside! A torque wrench could be used although the correct figure is very low - around 8 Nm if my memory serves me right. I'll check when I'm near my workshop manual if you like?

Replace these gaskets, and avoid those made of cork laminate type material which are sometimes sold.

The sump gasket can be replaced without removing the engine, but it's a horrible job jacking the engine up on the RHS.

Best of luck.

Kindest regards,
Guy.

[Andy]

Thanks very much for the advice, Guy.
I haven't yet got my hands on a workshop manual, so yes I would be interested in knowing the correct torque setting when you have a moment to spare, although it sounds so low that gentle hand-tightening would probably be fine. Guess that's why those nuts have the knurled ring as well as the allen key socket.
My new gaskets look like they're made of some kind of black rubber compound, so I'll give them a try and switch back to non-synthetic oil. The sump gasket will have to wait, since I'm not equipped for jacking-up or hoisting the engine.

Kind regards,

Andy

[Randy Adams]

Andy:

I suppose you've already done this, but if you haven't make sure that the bolts holding the sump on are decently tight. They are known to vibrate loose.

Guy is quite correct about not overtightening the cam covers. I've seen cracked ones due to over-enthusiastic torqueing. Also, do not smear oil on the gaskets to create a seal. You won't create a seal, you'll create a siphon. I used to have a mechanic who stubbornly insisted upon doing this. They always leaked and I always had to take them off and dry them and reinstall them.

[Andy]

Thanks very much for the tips, Randy - that'll save me at least an hour of pondering whether or not to use the oil smear trick.
As for the sump bolts, you kindly credit me with far too much common sense, although the leaks appeared so promptly after my change to synthetic oil that it never occurred to me that the cause could be anything so ordinary as loose bolts. I'll check them too this weekend!
Thanks again.

Andy

[alan cooper]

I have used synthetic oil in several lancias ,fulvia ,2000hf and so on and have never experienced any oil leak problems, I find it hard to believe that the oil is at the heart of your problems.

[Hamish]

I have to agree with Alan, I've used synthetic more recently on betas without any trouble. It seems to me that it's more of a gasket/sealant problem.
I had a beta coupe once that leaked oil so badly that in the year I owned it I never needed to take the sump plug out to change the oil......!

[Andy]

Hmm. Well, I'm no expert, but I started out with a very clean engine with no visible leaks, changed the oil to synthetic without touching anything else (except for the filter), and within days I had a coating of oil on the engine, most visible down the rear of the block (not surprising since it is inclined that way) but also around the cam cover edges (looks like it's seeping there) and sump.

I agree that there's no reason why we shouldn't use synthetic oil in these engines, and I put it in because I actually believe in the stuff (rightly or wrongly...). I didn't use a particularly thin viscosity - my owner's manual recommends 10W/50, which seems appropriate for the wintery climate I live in. I'd actually be tempted to go for 5W/50 for the colder months, if I could sort out the leaks...

It seems that many different types of gasket were used in these cars over the years. My cam cover gaskets are what I would describe as the compressed card/fibre type, and I suspect that the resin/varnish stuff that is used to stiffen these gaskets and gives them that slightly glazed appearance when new just gets dissolved by the synthetic oil, especially when it's been baked in place for 28 years.

If your engines have been worked on over the past few years (more than just routine servicing), chances are most of the gaskets have been changed at least once and you would probably have replaced them with newer, less leak-prone types. ?? Just guessing... (and hoping there isn't a more serious reason!).

Thanks for the input, guys.

Andy

[Guy McDougall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah! I too have wasted money running synthetic oils in these old clunkers. I agree one can do it, but it's just not worth it. The point I'm making is that one should generally stick to the manufacturer's specs. Ask any Integrale owner whose blown an engine by using synthetics instead of the correct turbo grade oil...

[alan cooper]

I would say that synthetic is almost always worth it even in alleged 'clunkers' my experience is that with a really good synthetic you can tell the difference at high revs usually just that fraction smoother. Of course certain considerations must be made one being that you should not use very thin oils in older engines, secondly as the detergent quality of synthetics is so good there is a risk of shifting a lot of rubbish in a engine that has used cheap oil for years, thirdly if the engine is on its last legs it will probably if anythng make it worse.....but for a well maintained old Lancia engine I reckon it is usually fine