Fulvia novice

[Torben]

Dear all,

I am new to this forum and in fact I don't own a Fulvia ... yet.

I have been following this forum for a while and I notice that there is a great number of enthusiasts and experts here .. something which I believe is essential when owning and running an older car. For now I am looking for your advice and opinions ... later I hopefully can also contribute with information based on my own experience

I am actively looking for a Fulvia HF and I hope that you all can provide guidance as the HF cars seem to be specialist cars .. certainly the 'Fanalones' are, but even looking at a 1.2 HF or 1.3 HF it seems as if I need to be very careful before buying one.
I have come across a 1.2 HF (first registration March 66) which has aluminium doors but steel lids !! According to this thread this should not exist! http://www.viva-lancia.com/lancia_fora/ ... 304&t=3298
(btw. you'll see this message under above thread also.. I decided to repost as it didn't show on the main topic list )

Looking and searching through the forum it seems as if Lancia at times used an 'ad hoc' approach to assemling the cars, i.e. 'here's a few alu parts, let's fit those to the next cars coming down the assembly line'. Don't mean to insult anyone but is this a fair representation or are there detailed records of the specifics of every model?

I have also been looking for a Buyers Guide for these cars .. does that exist?

I noticed in another thread there was a discussion about prices and how the prices for the Fanalone has gone through the roof.
I know this is an impossible question, but let me ask it anyway: In Europe what should I expect to pay for a good condition (no rust, all mechanics working etc.) 1.2 HF, 1.3 HF and 1.6 HF??

As regards the Series 1 1.6 HF cars (Fanalone) it looks as if prices now start around Eur 40k and go up to about Eur 55k.
Series 2 1.6 HFs can be had for under Eur 20k, but what about Series 1 1.2 HF and 1.3 HF cars in good nick? There is for instance a 1.3 HF from 67 for sale in Germany. Asking price Eur 35k !!!!!

Any feedback and insights is much appreciated.

Rgds,
Torben

[Thomas]

I'm can't wait to see William's response regarding 1,2HF...

But on a more constructive note, why the heck do you want a HF? Standard Fulvia's are great as they are, while many people endeavour in HFs because they are only interested in speed, spend a fortune and after 3 re-mortgages, wife & dog leaving etc. realise they should have bought an EVO. If it's classic-car experience you're after, a standard Fulvia will already get you very far.

[Sam Danenberger IV]

I must agree with Thomas.
I "started" with a standard Series 1, 1.2 Coupe(now with a 1.3) and have been extremely happy with it.
The Fulvia is the most pure and simply engineered car I have ever owned, or had the pleasure to drive.
You must drive one first then decide.
Buona Fortuna!

[Huib Geurink]

Well said, Thomas and Sam.

Have you ever driven one, Torben?
You are welcome to drive my 1967 Rallye 1.3.
On the other hand, since I notice you are in Denmark, Christel, whose picture is on the front page of this website in the left column in the section "Belle Macchine" will be driving her Fulvia coupe from Holland to the north of Denmark on March 4 and back to Breda, Holland on April 3rd perhaps you can set up a meeting with her and drive her Fulvia. It is a battered old one but stil goes like the fireguard.

[Chasm61]

I'll add my 2cents worth as well. I have owned my Fulvia since September, and being in the US had very few options for purchasing one. I ended up with a series 3 (1975) and love it. I don't think having an HF would add much more in the way of pure driving pleasure. It might lend you a little more cache' or status having an HF, but be prepared to pay for that.

If I were to do it over, I would probably have looked harder for a series 2 1.3 rallye or safari (series 3 started to suffer from some of Fiat's economizing - more plastic parts like the grill and headlight surrounds, no wood steering wheel, etc). But I feel fortunate in that my car is mechanically and structurally very sound. I still need to deal with minor surface rust and possibly paint - that appears to be quite an expensive proposition to do it REALLY RIGHT, so find a car that is as rust free with quality paint, as well as structurally sound. The interior and mechanicals are easier to deal with in my opinion, even here in the US.

Good luck in your search!

[Kim Roberts]

Agree with many of the comments here. I own a 1972 1.6HF Lusso and a Series 1966 1.2.both of which are quite different and everybit as much fun to drive as each other. I have also owned 1.3S and the difference in performance between the 1.6 and the 1.3 would be un noticable in road driving,even driving quite hard.
Prices for the 1.6Hf fanalone are going through the roof currently and I'v seen them recently for up to 45,000 euros
Values of all the HFs depend mainly (apart from condition of course) on how many were originally built,obviously the rarer the model the dearer it is.

[Road Burner]

I'm writing this for the 3d time & staying incognito. The 1st 2 times I got wrapped around the FWD axle of my own prose. I'll tell you why. More isn't necessarily more when buying a Fulvia ( & many other "fine-old-cars), which has been said 5x out of 5 above. Why make more actually become more when the only more in more is the amount of money being spent. If I was (again) looking for a Fulvia I'd do what (I tried) to do the last time (the only time) I bought a Fulvia. Buy quality. OK, if someone has 'ill-feelings' toward a S3 that can't be overcome & rejects the S3 outright that is fine. If a beautiful S3 vs an equally beautiful older-Fulvia were offered at the same price & the nod went toward either 1, the buyer would be right.
To spend 3x or 4x or 5x more for a Fulvia just because it is (buyer beware) an HF , to spend (waste) so much hard earned money for a car that should never be selling (are they really being sold at those prices ? or just being speculated on ? I I suspect the latter) / should never be offered at prices anywhere near the prices I've read above, is just so much B.S. that now you know why I had to clean up the 'strong-language' written in my 1st 2 efforts. OR !!, all normal Fulvia, Coupe or Z (forgetting th C'dans for a minute) that are being sold - usually from 1 Fulvisti to another Fulvisti - usually good cars known to good persons in the country / state / region where the car lives ARE VASTLY UNDERVALUED !
I ask a us a question; a non Fulvia question ! A Porsche 2.4L,190 HP 911S or a 3.0 L, 200 HP 911 Carrera do everything that a 2.7, 210HP 911 Carrera RS does; but the RS aree valued (by whom, I can't tell you) at 5x more than the other 2. Why ? (that is the question) For 99 out of 100 buyers, the 2 (actually rarer) lower priced 911's are, by far, better values & are a also lot less "finniky". or is that 'finnicy' ;
no...it must be finniky, unless it is finnicky - yes, I believe the last version is correct.
Finnicky means 'troubling trouble'.
Buying / driving / owning an HF sounds like that to me, regardless of "real value".
Therefore, the Judge & Jury award the case to the 5 jurors who voted to spend less, worry less, have just as much (or more) pleasure / fun. .

[Sam Danenberger IV]

On the issue of undervalued..............

I paid $500 for my 1.2 Coupe out of Los Angeles, California in 2001.
(the engine was in the trunk and back seat of course)
I did not buy a Fulvia as an investment.
I bought to drive and enjoy.
It is good however to see the market and the periodicals finally giving the Fulvia its just due.
Mille Grazie.

[Ed Levin]

Torben,

To answer your easiest question first, the Lancia factory was not always ‘religious’ about specifications. Although the individual cars can vary a little, one from another, it wasn’t quite as ad hoc as you imagine. When a specification “officially” changed, some cars manufactured after that date may still have some older parts, while other cars manufactured before the official date may already have the newer specification. Keep in mind also that various items are changed by the owners over the years–to repair accident damage, to replace failed parts, to make them easier to drive or maintain, or simply to customize the car for their own needs.

If you are seriously looking to purchase an HF, you would do well to study all the available literature and specifications, and to learn where to locate all the critical serial numbers and special parts to confirm that the car is genuine, and not a replica. Fortunately, some of the factory weight-saving changes are a real nuisance to duplicate, so most replicas are easy to spot if you know what you’re looking for.

However, to get to your central question, I have to say that I agree with much of what has been said already. The HFs are indeed special cars, but they are very different in character from the ‘normale’ Fulvia Coupes; an HF is much less refined and relaxed than a standard Coupe. So the first thing you must do is to ask yourself why you want an HF? What do you intend to do with the car?

If you want a daily driver to cope with city traffic, you probably do not want an HF. A normal Fulvia Coupe, set up properly and in good tune, is a great car to drive–plenty quick enough for modern traffic.

If you are looking for more speed, you must be prepared to live with compromises. A 1.2HF does not have more power than a 1.3S–the real difference is that the 1.2HF weighs over 100kg less. This weight reduction was achieved by removing all sound deadening, by changing glass for plastic, and by a number of other minor changes that make it less easy to live with the car day to day. The same is true for the 1.3HF and the first series 1.6HF ‘Fanalone’. (A second series HF1600 will be more refined than an S1.)

As you correctly note, the HFs tend to be more costly than the ‘normale’ Coupes. Again, you must ask yourself why you want one, and whether this justifies the higher price. Because of that increased cost, if you’re looking to do serious historic rallying, you’d probably be better off with a well-prepared standard 1.3, rather than risk damaging a more valuable, more historic chassis.

Now, having said all that, I will tell you that I own a 1,6 Fanalone. (And no, Thomas, I do not wish I had bought an Integrale EVO instead.) On the average week, here in Los Angeles, I drive it about 70-100 miles, and I would drive it even more if not for the worry of leaving it in a car park where its aluminum doors can be battered by an SUV. It is indeed much quicker than a 1.3S, and the compromises in comfort and refinement are worth the trade-off to me, personally, for the type of driving I typically do in the car. But for long-distance touring, a standard Coupe would probably be a better choice for most people.

So it comes back to the central question: why do you want an HF (or indeed any Fulvia)? And how do you want to use the car?

[Peter Cripps]

Excellent summary, Ed. It removes any secret longings I might have had for a 1.6!

Peter