Just a question

[Huib Geurink]

If you drive your Fulvia (or other car), do you have the feeling that

a) you are driving on the road

or

b) the road moves under you

[John Simister]

Definitely a. The Fulvia involves you in the whole process - cause/effect, input/output, action/reaction. You work with the car, it involves you in every way, you feel every change in topography especially through the changing weighting and loading of the steering. That's what is missing in most modern cars. They still sometimes have traces of steering feel but most of it is masked by the power assistance and the different steering geometries it allows in a car designed from the start to have power steering.

Some modern cars still have a feeling of 'a', such as a Lotus Elise or even a Renault Mégane R26 in which the electric power steering is adapted to give no artificial self-centring. But a Fulvia remains impressively pure in its responses.

My two other old cars also conform to 'a', which is one reason why I own them. One is a Saab 96 two-stroke, the other is an early Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 without power steering. The Peugeot's steering feel is incredible, helped by the reduction in pre-load in the rack which comes with its high mileage.

I drove a new Vauxhall (Opel) Corsa SRi the other day, with a light-pressure turbo 1.6 and plenty of power and pace. Its steering was weighty but entirely devoid of feedback of changing wheel loadings, cornering forces and surface grip. I could have been driving a video game. That was a 'b' car.

John

[Johnny48]

I was in the office at 0600 this AM & its FINALLY time for a coffee break, so I WILL dedicate 5 minutes or 5000 words, whichever comes first
Well, for sure driving a Fulvia Zagato it isn't related to driving a newer Lancia. I've driven:
Beta Coupe - that are vastly more modern & have a real trunk (boot) ! - Thema (great family / business car) - Kappa (wolf in sheep clothing) - Lybra (boring, but economical & "different", since almost no one knows what it is, in Germany anyway) - Gamma Coupe (low-cost to buy & run = GT Motoring at its best) .
Driving a Fulvuía Z is actually quite the same experiance as driving a Beta Monte Carlo (MC).

The above "modern" Lancia are all comfortable & easy to drive, excepting the MC.
Long distances just float by, in modern Lancias. In a Z (or MC) they are pure adventure, but please give me twisty roads & altitude changes !!!!! So, there is never a feeling of floating !!!

A Fulvia Z (MC) is so tiny inside that I have to continually duck, twist & contort my body... i.e. pretzel myself, just to see anything to the rear, left or right. View to the front is fine, as long as I don't need a sun visor; with folded down visors there is no vision beyond the end of the hood !!!!
& I am long legged, but not tall of upper body ! If I was teller, I'd have to take a bus.
Over my right shoulder is a permanent blind spot. Yikes !
To the direct rear I sometimes see things reflecting on slanted glass hatch that are not there & sometimes I don't see things that are there. Both are somewhat unsettling & rather dangerous. Having no right mirror doesn't help.

What does this have to do with driving a "normal" Fulvia & how does it compare ?
I still don't know, having never been in nor myself driven a "tall windowed 4Porte" or "360° vision Coupe".

I assume that they are "easier & safer to drive" . I sure hope so !!!

Driving a Zagato is "a real drivers experience" , requiring full concentration at all times.
Being rather slow (compared to most other automobiles on the road) on the "open-road", it requires weeks of prior planning before overtaking, during which time it has consumed only 0.000001 Liter.
A very mini gas tank but very maxi mileage. The former adds to the excitement , the latter means less time spend tanking up.

Being jammed in such a tiny cockpit, I always fell threatened by...well ... every other vehicle -Trabants excluded - on the road. Trucks terrify me, as do rabbits & other tall animals.

Z's are defiantly "think ahead & assume everyone else on the road is out to kill you" cars.

It's the best "fountain of youth" I've ever experienced & guaranteed to make life a whole lotta fun.

Everywhere I go I make new friends; kids, teens, pretty girls, old men...middle-age or older Italian Men start crying when they see it & all want to sit in it. Many of my friends tell me they want to steal it.
No one has ever said that about my Gamma !

Still, I wish for 8 airbags, abs, LSD (not that kind !), 4wd, big trunk, rubber-covered safety-bumpers, door safety-beams, pink fur interior, chromed chain steering wheel, A/C, vinyl covered roof (green snakeskin to match my cowboy-boots, please) with "nerf-bars" (whatever they are) &57' Thunderbird Port-Hole Windows, 5 Liter Cadillac V8 & wild tails fins ...
Waita minute wohaa, no Panic Hombre ! I 'm just kidding, ha ha ha !!

OK; I'd not object to a bigger trunk, in fact, any size trunk at all would be fine !

But, if I wanted a trunk real bad, I'd own a Fulvia Coupe & not a Z.
& if I have to have door beams, I'd have 2 made to fit & install them !
If I could put in 2 airbags, I would !!!!!!!!

Z = driving the minimum "amount" of Sports-Car to achieve the maximum "amount" of fun.

It shouldn't be legal.
Sorry, I am out of time

[Johnny48]

I add to my last post;
The former (quote: "it requires weeks of prior planning before overtaking")adds to the excitement ,
the latter (during which time it has consumed only 0.000001 Liter). means less time spend tanking up.

I again add a ? I've asked before: does anyone reading this Topic drive their Fulvia (any model) in a cold-climate "all year round" = snow, salt, mud, rain, pollution etc or are they treated as "Sunday Cars" ?

[John Simister]

All the year round, because a car is made to be driven and they run better and feel better if used a lot. I just try to keep it clean, hose down the underside and arches if there has been salt around, touch up with Waxoyl or similar underneath as necessary and keep it in the garage at night if it's at home. I don't use it every day but it could be used that way if needed. It's fast enough, appears to be reliable and I love the looks on people's faces when I pass them at 85mph.

John

[Gamma as in Goat]

Babelfish translation program translated Johnny48's post from (poor) English to Hollandaise & then from Hollandaise back to English & here are the results;

In English

I was in the office at 0600 this AM & to be O.k. a coffee pause, make so that I 5 minutes, or 5000 words will dedicate, he who firstly well come, without doubt floating Fulvia Zagato it isn't concerning floating no matter which newer Lancia. I've passionate: Bèta coupe - that enormously more modern & is; have real tree-tame (laars)! - Topic (large family/company car) - Kappa (wolf in sheep clothing) - Lybra (, but economic & that drilling; "different", since almost nobody weet what it is, in Germany anyhow) - range cheap coupe (& to buy; run = GT Motoring at its bests). Float of Fulvía z is in fact rather same the experience such as floating Bètamonte Carlo (MC). Aforesaid "modern" Lancia are all comfortable & easily for, but "MC" to float;. Long distances only vlotter in modern Lancias. In z (or MC) they are pure adventure, but twisty gone with altitude please on change! There never a feeling of floating concerning the way!!! Fulvia z (MC) is this way extremely small binnenkant that I constant duck, twists & must; contort my body... i.e. pretzel themselves, only to see raising no matter what, left or exactly. The opinion to front is fine, as long as I don't a sun sight demands; with gevouwen below sights there is no vision after the end of the cap!!!! & I am legged long, but not long of higher body! If I was longer, must take I'd a bus. O'er my correct shoulder is a permanent blind person macula Yikes! To the direct achtergedeelte to see I sometimes solicitting considering tended glass brood which there no & to be; sometimes sees I don't things that is there. Both is slightly unsettling & rather dangerous. Have of no correct spiegeldoesn't aid. What does this must with floating "normal" to do; Fulvia & how does it compare? I still knowing don't, windowed never nor themselves are floated "tall 4Porte" or "360° vision Coupe". I assume that they more "easier & to be; more safely to drive" . The certain hope this way!!! of I floating Zagato are "a real drivers experience", at each moment requiring complete concentration. Are rather slow (compared at most of the other auto's on the way) on "open road", it requires weeks of former planning before overvallen, in which it has consumed only 0,000001 litres. Very minigastank but very maxiafstand in miles. Former (assault) adds resources to agitation, the last mentioned (economy) less time & money that omhoog tanking. It is blocked in such an extremely small cockpit, fell I always well threatened by...... each other vehicle - excluded Trabants - on the way. The freight carriages boost fear me, such as the rabbits & other long animals. Z's defiantly "think ahead & are; assume everyone differently on the way from must kill you" auto's. It's best "fountain of youth" I've & ever experienced; guaranteed to turn a whole pret into living Lotta. Everywhere where go I I make new friends; the young young she-goats, toes, the beautiful little girls, old people... midden-leeftijd or older Italian people start shout when they the & to see; even if need in this sit. Much of my friends tell me they want it steal. Nobody has ever that said concerning my range! Still, I wish 8 luchtkussens, abs, LSD (not that type!) this, 4wd, large tree-tame, rubber-behandelde security bumpers, door veiligheid-stralen, roze the control wheel of the fur on national level, collar chromed, a/c, vinyl treated roof (green snakeskin to adapt my cowboy cowboy-laarzen, satisfied) with "nerf bars" (what there also they) are &57' The windows of the patrijspoort of Thunderbird, 5 litres Cadillac V8 & wild tiny wohaa Waita, no panic Hombre of staartenvinnen...! I 'm those only, ha ha ha!! kid thing O.K.; I'd to have objection against larger tree-tame, in fact, any size-tree-tame would not be at all fine! But if I real bad want tree-tame, I'd Fulvia have coupe & not Z. & if I must door jets, I'd 2 have made for & to be appropriate; install them! If I could introduce 2 luchtkussens, I!!!!!!!! z = floating minimum "amount" of sport car maximum to reach "amount" of pret. Shouldn't legal is. Sadly, I am from time I hope Babelfish translated well! If not, read the english version... it are evern worse!

afterword: tree-tame (laars) = trunk (boots) & then it went downhill from there .
Gamma = Range ? maybe I should just outlaw myself & nort persecute y'all (you all) anymore. !

In any case, using B'fish to translate Ital to English to Ital ends up translating Lancia as Nozzle,
but translates Nozzle into Ugello. So I drive a Ugello Range (Lancia Gamma). I still have started to use B'fish to translate all the postings into a sort of understandable lingo.
I should probably spend my time walking in the Park instead !

[Ralph de Masi]

There will never again be cars like the Fulvia, Lotus and others. In some cases that's a good thing for reliability and safety but a bad thing for those who want to feel what their car is doing. Just take a look at the enormous tires that are put on cars these days. The only thing you're going to feel is every pebble, expansion joint and bump. Of course with todays cars you can easliy throw them into a corner and you'd practically have to be a complete idiot to lose it with the traction afforded by those tires, traction control, stability control, ABS and every other acronym out there.

There seems to be a disconnect between what car commercials advertise and what the actual driving conditions are. We get more and more horsepower to drag heavier cars around with all the extra crap we need in our cars these days and the performance is incredibly high but it seems it's all for sitting in traffic and especially behind people who seem to have ordered their drivers license through the mail.

We probably enjoy our old cars because we can picture and feel the various bits of machinery working. My Saab 9-5 Aero is a computer on wheels, an appliance. Just try to get someone to fix it when the computer isn't telling them what's wrong.

[Ed Levin]

I'll echo John's comments: 'a' to Huib's question--there's never any doubt that my Fulvia is moving down the road rather than just having the road rolling back like a video game; and I definitely use it all year round--though I'll readily admit that's a bit of a cheat for those of us who live in Southern California. I don't use my HF every day only because the bodywork is too vulnerable to be parked next to the ubiquitous SUVs. No issue of keeping up with traffic, even on the freeways.

[Bart Verbeek]

John

My Z was (is) also my pride and joy! It drove like a train until I decided to fully restore it. I knew the lack of vision to the rear, the non-existing luggage compartiment and only room for 2, but it didn't bother me. After a couple of months I was getting feverish because there was no drivable Fulvia within reach. Therefor I bought me a nice S2 Fulvia Berlina. I bought it (thank you very much you damned internet) in the north of Holland in Januar. It was very cold, windy, salty, snowing, vision 0, but I had to pick up my new toy to keep me quiet and "easy-to-handle". The very first kms where a true revelation!!!! I was sitting in the middle of a greenhouse! Windows everywhere! And Spacious!!!! I bought bustickets to travel to the backseat or pick up something from the boot. Where you could get claustrophobic in a Z, you can easely get agoraphobic in a Berlina. It are 2 opponents, but,............................; the are the same.
They handle, drive, feel, smell,...., the same....
I always was affraid (I have a dozen nearly-dead-experiences) in Z. It was too low, too small. Everyone was climbing with its bumpers on my tailgate to see what that hump of steel really was; preferably sitting in a big bad SUV. Everybody keeps a save distance from my Lada deluxe, probably to prevent the rustbug to jump over!
*tapping on your shoulder* : "I know that feeling my mate! the Z vs Gamma feeling"

on topic: A for Fulvias B for modern cars. A for fun, B for transport.

Bart


Where I thought the Z was the blind spot on the road, or the bullseye, I was always affraid that someone would overlook me and

[Johnny48]

In case you care:

Nerf-bars ( not Nerd-Bars !, where Nerds go to warm-drink milk & play checkers ) - I remembered yesterday what they are & decided
a) I don't want them on my Fulvia ; I'll keep the useless, weak & optical-illusion full-size bumpers, thank you.
b) you may want to know:
Nerf-Bars (google recognizes the term) )are (usually) chrome plated, often 'bent like a boomerang' with ends inward-facing - vertical tubes. I'd guess about 12" long, attached to front & rear bumper-mounts after bumpers are removed; first seen (by me) on chop-top 30's "Born in tha USA" Street-Dragsters; as seen in films like American Graffitti & actually 'out-on-the-street, in summertime, where I grew up .

They accomplish nothing & wouldn't stop a horse-fly (or a butterfly) if it decided to crash into the front or rear of a car on which they are mounted. Their only purpose it to "look-cool" .

They at least look cool (to some) !!!

As opposed to phony "Landau Bars" which also actually do nothing (on cars build after ca. 1925).
Before ca 1925 they had a purpose & weren't phony.
On "customized-cars" (another USA term used in the 50's, 60's, 70's & today ?) they just look stupid & gawdy. On some cars that is fine ! SWB Cadillac Eldorado for example.
PS: I live near Landau & have gone there to look ! I saw not 1 Landau Bar mounted on any vehicle !!

Phony Landau Bars fit the character of cars like 70's Lincoln Mark VIII Coupes (with green snake-skin vinyl 3 slit-rear 'tiffiny-chrystal-glass' rear-quarter-windowed (per side) roofs & enhance the elegant look (of course) given to a "Fine-Automobile for the Discerning-Driver (barf), just like mounting extended-bumper "Continental-Kits*" to the rear (of course) of the above described Car.

They* were popular (in some American circles) in my old (real old) days.
They were the first "safety-bumpers" (even if the didn't know it) & actually benefited trunk-capacity, by taking the rear tire out of it & placing it behind the trunk (boot), so anyone could easily steal it.

Fox Tails on Antennas (poor foxes), Rabbit-Foot hanging from inner-mirrors (poor rabbits) & other sensible articles, like fuzzy- dice or Hearse (is this spelled right?) knuckle-shaped shift-knobs... well the list goes on & on. A Feller could go broke adding these "do-dads" (my, its been a long time since I wrote, said or even thought of "do-dads".

I just googled "Continental-Kit" & saw many offerings ! Not only for Vans !!!
I guess exquisite bad-taste is still "in".

If a Fulvia was going to be "jazzed-up" ( I think that term came from the 20's or 30's - which, I might add, was slightly before my time) with all or any of the previously mentioned items (in this & previous posts) ,
it would have to be a Berlina.
This would require very heavy-duty shock absorbers & a glittery purple paint scheme, with flames down each side. Side Pipes are optional as are spoilers & side skirts.

I (we) saw several "not-so-shiny" Berlina in France last year that "really might qualify" for the above described treatment. Then, Huib, " the road would move under the Car, as if it weren't moving at all

I (we) a also saw a Blue-Coupe that already had (most of) this 'treatment'.
I personally thought that Fulvia was "a Gas" (doesn't any one remeb´mebr this Hippy-Times Term?, as in
Jumpin Jack Flash, itsa gag gas gas. Or are you all to young ?

Well, I've had my moment(s) of literary genius this week ... so I'm now going back to plow the fields,
before the sun goes down; the plow is pulled by my (not so fast) Z. I'm harnessed to the front-nerf-bars.



Johnny48 wrote:
>
> I was in the office at 0600 this AM & its FINALLY time
> for a coffee break, so I WILL dedicate 5 minutes or 5000
> words, whichever comes first
> Well, for sure driving a Fulvia Zagato it isn't related to
> driving a newer Lancia. I've driven:
> Beta Coupe - that are vastly more modern & have a real trunk
> (boot) ! - Thema (great family / business car) - Kappa
> (wolf in sheep clothing) - Lybra (boring, but economical &
> "different", since almost no one knows what it is, in Germany
> anyway) - Gamma Coupe (low-cost to buy & run = GT Motoring
> at its best) .
> Driving a Fulvuía Z is actually quite the same experiance as
> driving a Beta Monte Carlo (MC).
>
> The above "modern" Lancia are all comfortable & easy to
> drive, excepting the MC.
> Long distances just float by, in modern Lancias. In a Z (or
> MC) they are pure adventure, but please give me twisty roads
> & altitude changes !!!!! So, there is never a feeling of
> floating !!!
>
> A Fulvia Z (MC) is so tiny inside that I have to continually
> duck, twist & contort my body... i.e. pretzel myself, just
> to see anything to the rear, left or right. View to the
> front is fine, as long as I don't need a sun visor; with
> folded down visors there is no vision beyond the end of the
> hood !!!!
> & I am long legged, but not tall of upper body ! If I was
> teller, I'd have to take a bus.
> Over my right shoulder is a permanent blind spot. Yikes !
> To the direct rear I sometimes see things reflecting on
> slanted glass hatch that are not there & sometimes I don't
> see things that are there. Both are somewhat unsettling &
> rather dangerous. Having no right mirror doesn't help.
>
> What does this have to do with driving a "normal" Fulvia &
> how does it compare ?
> I still don't know, having never been in nor myself driven a
> "tall windowed 4Porte" or "360° vision Coupe".
>
> I assume that they are "easier & safer to drive" . I sure
> hope so !!!
>
> Driving a Zagato is "a real drivers experience" , requiring
> full concentration at all times.
> Being rather slow (compared to most other automobiles on the
> road) on the "open-road", it requires weeks of prior planning
> before overtaking, during which time it has consumed only
> 0.000001 Liter.
> A very mini gas tank but very maxi mileage. The former adds
> to the excitement , the latter means less time spend tanking
> up.
>
> Being jammed in such a tiny cockpit, I always fell threatened
> by...well ... every other vehicle -Trabants excluded - on
> the road. Trucks terrify me, as do rabbits & other tall
> animals.
>
> Z's are defiantly "think ahead & assume everyone else on the
> road is out to kill you" cars.
>
> It's the best "fountain of youth" I've ever experienced &
> guaranteed to make life a whole lotta fun.
>
> Everywhere I go I make new friends; kids, teens, pretty
> girls, old men...middle-age or older Italian Men start
> crying when they see it & all want to sit in it. Many of my
> friends tell me they want to steal it.
> No one has ever said that about my Gamma !
>
> Still, I wish for 8 airbags, abs, LSD (not that kind !), 4wd,
> big trunk, rubber-covered safety-bumpers, door safety-beams,
> pink fur interior, chromed chain steering wheel, A/C, vinyl
> covered roof (green snakeskin to match my cowboy-boots,
> please) with "nerf-bars" (whatever they are) &57' Thunderbird
> Port-Hole Windows, 5 Liter Cadillac V8 & wild tails fins ...
> Waita minute wohaa, no Panic Hombre ! I 'm just kidding,
> ha ha ha !!
>
> OK; I'd not object to a bigger trunk, in fact, any size trunk
> at all would be fine !
>
> But, if I wanted a trunk real bad, I'd own a Fulvia Coupe &
> not a Z.
> & if I have to have door beams, I'd have 2 made to fit &
> install them !
> If I could put in 2 airbags, I would !!!!!!!!
>
> Z = driving the minimum "amount" of Sports-Car to achieve
> the maximum "amount" of fun.
>
> It shouldn't be legal.
> Sorry, I am out of time