hi Guys,
I've been working on a friends fulvia 1.3s S2.... knocking sound, suspect valve hitting top of piston......but when I took off tappet cover to check valve timing, discovered that there are no marks on the camshafts and also no marks on the rocker shaft mounts.
Has anyone had experience of this and any suggestions as to how to determine correct positioning of camshafts without marks
Merry Christmas and Happy Hoilidays to everyone
No Valve Timing Marks
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tim
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
To check if valve clearance is zero turn engine over to each top dead centre and observe the approriate valve being depressed. You should always have some free movement to depress the valve further say with a pry bar. I once reassembled a head and lined up the marks but during assembly the cams had a mind of their own and slip round a bit. I was suprised to find the engine unable to be turned over (by hand)due to valve interferring with piston. I am suprised you have no marks. I would try No4 inlet and exhaust valves fully closed at TDC mark. then see how the No1 cyclinder inlet valve is operating. It should open 28degrees before top dead centre mark. I use a protractor (made from a web graphic) on the crank pulley marking TDC and going from there. Book says inlet opens 28 deg BTDC, closes 66 deg after bottom DC.
Very crudely this is 25 mm back from TDC on the pulley circumference.
Suprised there are no markings - they are sometimes difficult to see if the engine has a lot of grime. Also, it has happened that the timing dowel (fixed on most S3 cars) and a vernier on others can shear losing timing but you would notice this.
I suspect something within say a small or big end???
Merry Xmas
Tim
Very crudely this is 25 mm back from TDC on the pulley circumference.
Suprised there are no markings - they are sometimes difficult to see if the engine has a lot of grime. Also, it has happened that the timing dowel (fixed on most S3 cars) and a vernier on others can shear losing timing but you would notice this.
I suspect something within say a small or big end???
Merry Xmas
Tim
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Huib Geurink
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
S1 and early S2 cars have the timing mark on the camshaft. These cars also have the vernier adjustment.
Later S2 and S3 cars have the timing marks on the front of the cogwheel. Since the wheel can only be mounted in one unique position this is all right.
Note that the marks are NOT intended for timing the camshafts. They mark the position the camshafts should be at when assembling the engine to avoid pistons hitting valves during assembly.
Adjusting the timing is done by checking valve opening at TDC. This is 2,2 mm for engines with the 818.342 camshafts such as the 1.3S engine.
The procedure is in the technical databook.
Later S2 and S3 cars have the timing marks on the front of the cogwheel. Since the wheel can only be mounted in one unique position this is all right.
Note that the marks are NOT intended for timing the camshafts. They mark the position the camshafts should be at when assembling the engine to avoid pistons hitting valves during assembly.
Adjusting the timing is done by checking valve opening at TDC. This is 2,2 mm for engines with the 818.342 camshafts such as the 1.3S engine.
The procedure is in the technical databook.
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tim
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
Merry Christmas Huib!
I agree if one has a 2.2 mm feeler gauge this is the best way.
Tim
I agree if one has a 2.2 mm feeler gauge this is the best way.
Tim
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Huib Geurink
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
Merry Christmas to you too, Tim.
I stack feeler gauges of 1,0 0,8 and 0,4 to get 2,2. I also add 0,1 which I then use without the others to check when the tappet hits the valve.
When the engine is on the engine stand I always double check by counting teeth on the flywheel. The 2,2 mm method (or 1,0 mm for the 818.100 camshafts) is always spot on. Never needs any correction.
I stack feeler gauges of 1,0 0,8 and 0,4 to get 2,2. I also add 0,1 which I then use without the others to check when the tappet hits the valve.
When the engine is on the engine stand I always double check by counting teeth on the flywheel. The 2,2 mm method (or 1,0 mm for the 818.100 camshafts) is always spot on. Never needs any correction.
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Phil Laing
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
Thanks Huib,
Merry Christmas
Yes found the marks on the front of the cogs.. First time i've seen this
Merry Christmas
Yes found the marks on the front of the cogs.. First time i've seen this
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tim
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
The marks are on the cam shaft????!!!!!
Huib 2.2mm is absloutely fine if standard cams but if var1016 or simililar variants and one does not have lift at TDC then old fashioned protractor is quite the only way!
Best
Tim
Huib 2.2mm is absloutely fine if standard cams but if var1016 or simililar variants and one does not have lift at TDC then old fashioned protractor is quite the only way!
Best
Tim
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Huib Geurink
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
There is always lift at TDC as there is always valve overlap. Perhaps you mean the lift data is not known. In that case you do have to use the protractor or count teeth on the flywheel which I normally do. I write 10 20 30 etc on the flywheel next to the corresponding tooth.
After having timed the camshaft that way it is an idea to measure the lift at TDC and use that in future.
After having timed the camshaft that way it is an idea to measure the lift at TDC and use that in future.
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tim
Re: No Valve Timing Marks
Huib
I cant agree more (and I did mean lift data - must slow down on typing front) but I still prefer the protractor method as this gives first principles satisfaction!
Have a great new year.
Best
Tim
I cant agree more (and I did mean lift data - must slow down on typing front) but I still prefer the protractor method as this gives first principles satisfaction!
Have a great new year.
Best
Tim