A quick question regarding fulvia starter motors. I have a series 3, 1.3s coupe which had an intermittent starter refusal. occasionally, it would click with the solenoid engaging, but the motor wouldn't turn. I got my paws on a ducellier motor, and reconditioned it. Shot blasted the exterior, sprayed it, replaced bushes and brushes, skimmed the commutator, looked lovely, took me ages.
I got a bit of a fright when I opened the engine bay to swap it and noticed that the one in there already was a bit shorter than the one I spent so much time overhauling. So the one coming out was a marelli, and the new one is a ducellier. The pitch on the ducellier is the same, and the solenoid throw is close enough. I put it in and it worked. Question is, which is the correct one?
series 3 fulvia starter motor
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Huib
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
The earlier S2/3 cars had Ducellier starter motor and alternator. The later ones had Bosch. Or perhaps the other way around. Anyway, you should be all right if it fits and works.
Swapping alternators is a bit more complex because of the wiring and regulator.
Swapping alternators is a bit more complex because of the wiring and regulator.
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john tynan
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
I knew it would be you who replied first Huib, but I wasn't expecting a reply that quickly. The marelli one didn't seem to fit perfectly and one of the lugs had a fracture. I was hoping the ducellier one was the correct one. Now the next job is a carb overhaul. I have no doubt that there will be more questions. The Marelli one is going in the scrap bin.
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Huib
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
Well, I get an email for every new posting within a few seconds.
I have never seen a Marelli one.
I have never seen a Marelli one.
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john tynan
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
It's a marelli one alright. About 4 inches shorter than the ducellier one. It is starting much better now. Turning over far more quickly. It used to take a few turns to get it firing on full choke, but now it's up and running immediately. I thought that the fuel was draining back in the lines and was contemplating putting in an electric pump to prime the lines.
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Tim Heath
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
John
Its unlikely fuel drains back in the pipe. Much more likely that if standing for a few days or more then the carbs have leaky gasket at the bottom around the accelerator pump after many years use, and the fuel generally leaks away needing a lot of cranking. Incidentally Lancia fitted a "drip tray" under the carbs to prvent drips of fuel going onto the alternator and catching fire!!!
Best if you haven't is to overhaul the carbs and replace these gaskets. You can get the gasket set on ebay and Lancia specialists. PS a small facet ectric pump is a good mod to lift fuel on starting and have a back up if the mechanical one fails.
Tim
Its unlikely fuel drains back in the pipe. Much more likely that if standing for a few days or more then the carbs have leaky gasket at the bottom around the accelerator pump after many years use, and the fuel generally leaks away needing a lot of cranking. Incidentally Lancia fitted a "drip tray" under the carbs to prvent drips of fuel going onto the alternator and catching fire!!!
Best if you haven't is to overhaul the carbs and replace these gaskets. You can get the gasket set on ebay and Lancia specialists. PS a small facet ectric pump is a good mod to lift fuel on starting and have a back up if the mechanical one fails.
Tim
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Brian Hilton
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
Hi Tim,
something must be draining back somewhere !
My 2c has always taking a lot of churning to start if standing more than a few days,ever since I got it on the road in 1999 after slumbering away for over 20 years.
It did it when it had the old 32 solex's fitted, still did it when changed for a New pair of Dellorto 32's, I've also fitted a filter King, & a new fuel pump. none of which made any difference!
Just fitted a solid state electric pump for priming only.
Start is now almost instant.
Speaking to other Fulvia owners over the years, this seems to be common?
Regards
Brian Hilton
something must be draining back somewhere !
My 2c has always taking a lot of churning to start if standing more than a few days,ever since I got it on the road in 1999 after slumbering away for over 20 years.
It did it when it had the old 32 solex's fitted, still did it when changed for a New pair of Dellorto 32's, I've also fitted a filter King, & a new fuel pump. none of which made any difference!
Just fitted a solid state electric pump for priming only.
Start is now almost instant.
Speaking to other Fulvia owners over the years, this seems to be common?
Regards
Brian Hilton
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Tim Heath
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
Very common and always attributed to the design of both solex and dellortos. If you dismantle them the base of the float chamber has a thin rubber gasket around the accelerator pump bit shared between the 2 venturi. This is all that exists between the bottom of the float chamber and thin air and invariably leaks - hence the drip tray - I hope you have yours fitted!! Always a good idea to overhaul ever so many years (10??) and/or check the screws holding it all together are tight.
best
Tim
best
Tim
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Huib
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
Indeed, the drip tray should never be left off. Of course the small hose should be connected and go under the starter motor.
Also make sure you get membranes which are not affected by today's unleaded petrol.
I would think the fuel just evaporates from the float bowls. If the car stands for a week there is no longer enough to start the car.
Never use the choke to start but pump the pedal with short fast strokes. Since the accelerator pump is at the bottom of the float bowl, it is the fastest way to get fuel into the venturi's.
It should not need much more than 20 seconds of continuous cranking to fill the float bowls sufficiently to start. If it does there may be a restriction in the fuel supply line.
Also make sure you get membranes which are not affected by today's unleaded petrol.
I would think the fuel just evaporates from the float bowls. If the car stands for a week there is no longer enough to start the car.
Never use the choke to start but pump the pedal with short fast strokes. Since the accelerator pump is at the bottom of the float bowl, it is the fastest way to get fuel into the venturi's.
It should not need much more than 20 seconds of continuous cranking to fill the float bowls sufficiently to start. If it does there may be a restriction in the fuel supply line.
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P. de R. Leclercq
Re: series 3 fulvia starter motor
I have always considered the Ducellier unit to be rubbish - apart from the fact that it is lighter than the much better Bosch one.
However when old, the Bosch ones do play up - usually the cause is either the solenoid or the brushes or both. One has to use a screwdriver to connect the power feed to one of the screws on the back on the solenoid. Embarrassingly I had to do this on a boat whilst a pile of people were revving there engines to set off on their (French) holidays.
On my car I have managed to fit an Evo one. It is 3.5lbs lighter than a Bosch unit and simply whizzes the engine over! It is also reliable!
Paul
However when old, the Bosch ones do play up - usually the cause is either the solenoid or the brushes or both. One has to use a screwdriver to connect the power feed to one of the screws on the back on the solenoid. Embarrassingly I had to do this on a boat whilst a pile of people were revving there engines to set off on their (French) holidays.
On my car I have managed to fit an Evo one. It is 3.5lbs lighter than a Bosch unit and simply whizzes the engine over! It is also reliable!
Paul