electric water pump

[tyney]

Hi, Has anyone tried using an electric water pump to replace the original fulvia one. there are several different ones now available. I can't remember what the fulvia one looks like inside. What type of seal prevents oil from coming out of the engine into the pump housing. Just wondering could you leave the old pump in place running dry, or would you have to route through the old housing with the impeller removed to keep the seal wet. I'm sure there would be a very small horsepower benefit in there somewhere, as well as better cooling in traffic. Any thoughts?

[Ralph deMasi]

With the number of pumps available from all the traditonal sources besides those I see on the US, British and Italian Ebay it would seem more trouble than it's worth especially considering that the Fulvia electrical plant was never great shakes to begin with. You would need to redirect the water from the existing pump to the electical one.

Do you really have that much free time, unexplored welding skills and patience? lol

[Ed Levin]

I've got to agree with Ralph; this would be a lot more trouble than it's worth. First, any hp gain would be so minimal as to be worthless for a street car. Second, the pump doesn't have much to do with cooling in traffic--that's mostly a factor of airflow through the radiator. A much more useful mechanical-to-electrical conversion would be to remove the belt-driven fan and add a shrouded electric fan (w/ t-stat) behind the radiator. That would do much more for cooling, just as much for hp increase, and won't involve replumbing.

[tyney]

working on a s2 track\road car, so already have electric fan. I was just thinking of all the technology changes in the last 30 years and what improvements could be made. Once you abandon originality on a project car, your mind starts to wander. I've already had someone try to get me to make it rear wheel drive with an mx5 engine and drivetrain, but thats a step too far. Unfortunately, i do have the welding skills and time, made more dangerous with an imagination. An f&m special replica has been lurking in the darkest recesses of my head for a few years as well.

[Peter]

tyney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just thinking of all the
> technology changes in the last 30 years and what
> improvements could be made.

Well, how about Megasquirt control of fuel and ignition? Then you could report back so people like me could steal all your hard work! (Said with a twinkle in the eye ...)

Welding skills might be needed to fabricate a suitable intake system. Time would certainly be needed to get it all working correctly!

Anyway, light-hearted ribbing aside, good luck with the project!

Peter

[shaun pond]

Well, Lancia for a long time had a reputation for engineering innovation, and I also have a soft spot for "specials", so I hope that Tyney does try the electric water pump, as well as the MegaSquirt.

Provided, of course, that he reports back to the Viva-Lancia forum so that we can steal all his hard work.

[tyney]

i'll definitely be trying a rewire with a modern altermator. Maybe have a go at the water pump. Definitely try a modern alloy rad. The problem with engine mods is that dyno testing is the only true way of knowing if you made a difference. Im not chasing horses. Im looking for reliability in a car driven hard. I thrash my daily driver. 11 year old modernish car, and it just keeps on going. I have a really nice s3 road car that i used as a daily driver for a year. I am very good to it. 3k oil changes, good tyres, weekly checkups etc, but it snapped a ring and wrecked a piston in an enthusiastic moment on an empty road. It would be nice to get a bit more peace of mind by ironing out the weak spots in what was a brilliant design to begin with. Anyway, enough chat, back to work. A day with my project beckons. Back to the basics of rust and paint. If anyone has found any little improvements, please share.

[Ralph deMasi]

Apart from the water pump it sounds like you're looking at the right items to upgrade, alternator and radiator. There was a discussion on this forum a while back about suitable alternators. To that I would add ignition, I installed a Crane Cams XR3000 on mine and it made what I thought was a good improvement on starting and idle. Double that money and you can go for Huib's new distributor which looks pretty cool.

If you want to add fuel injection there is a company that makes throttle bodies that look like Webers and use the Weber spacing. They have ports for the fuel injectors. Of course that would mean finding a Fulvia intake manifold to fit the Weber carb spacing. The gentle man that runs the Fulvia's in France website added injection to a really tricked out Fulvia I believe.

I've often thought about what it would take to recreate the F&M vehicle. You would definitely need to brace the remaining body possibly by installing tubing across the lower half of the door opening as well as one across the car securing the tops of the panels right behind the door openings. The more difficult part would be fabricating a metal half-tonneau to cover the rear seat area.

[tyney]

i had thought of making a panel out of light gauge aluminium, with a sort of pod behind each of the two occupants, then fibreglass each side like a laminate. Day Dreaming. It's amazing where your mind brings you. When your wife asks "what are you thinking about", sometimes the best answer is "nothing".

[Ed Levin]

If this is a search for reliability, then I'd really put an electric water pump way down the list. The stock pump seal does fail occasionally, but it's generally pretty reliable and it's fairly easy to replace.

The fuel injection set-up that Ralph mentioned is really intriguing; it's made by Redline, and it uses DCOE throttle bodies with fully-programmable injection and coil-on-plug ignition. I've got to say I've been very tempted. In any case, DCOE manifolds aren't that tough to find--they were homologated for Fulvias, and several different versions were made (I'm running DCOEs on my car).