Removing S1 heater

[Peter Cripps]

My 'bitsa' Fulvia has what I believe to be a series 1 heater, with rotary controls under the dash. Various parts are missing, principally the 'horn' that connects the air inlet to the hood scoop. Also the fan doesn't work, although I do measure about 10 ohms across the fan wires. I believe it is probably seized up.

My question is this: however do you remove the heater box? I see the 4 screws that appear to hold it in place ... it looks as if the whole assembly would drop down if those screws are removed. But there's no clearance under the heater for this to happen.

Perhaps this is a result of the S2 transmission tunnel? (See other thread for the story on that!)

Or maybe there's a trick?

Thanks,

Peter

[Huib]

I was already wondering for some time what heater was put in. Putting an S2 heater into an S1 body is also a major job. As you say, the heater should drop down if you take the screws out.
You would need an S1 horn to connect the heater to the scoop.

What steering column do you have?

[Neil]

Peter,
I have recently done this on my S1. It is not a trivial task. As I was stripping my car to a bare body shell I already had lots of the car already removed - principly the interior, glass, dash and drive train. This makes it alot easier.

Firstly you have to remove all the intake assembly from inside the engine bay. This is a nuts and bolt affair, which you will be able to work out just be staring at it. You will almost certainly have to cut the two hoses rather than remove them. After disconnecting all the control wires you are left with removing the four long screws that hold the unit in. For these you have to be VERY careful not to round the heads - if you do this I have no idea how you will remove them as there is no room to get a drill in to drilll them out. I suggest you soak the threads (from the top where they come through into the engine bay) with penetrating oil for a day or so. This is because the threads corrode, when you start to undo them from underneath the first few turns will be free - this gives a fasle sense that everything is ok because they soon get stuck, then you force it and the heads get rounded. To get at the screws from inside you need to be absolutly straight with a good sharp screwdriver that is the correct size - I would advise you remove the seats for this or you will not be able to get in straight. You will also need to remove the gearleaver.

Then you need to slide the unit out, but that is also not easy - the two pipes that go through into the engine bay from the unit need guiding through the two holes as you lower the unit down. This is complecated by the fact that the left hand pipe (as you look at it) has a 45" bend in it. You will need someone witha screw driver in the pipe to lever and guide it. As the unit drops you then pull it out fowards, but there is very little room (there is JUST enough clearence) so it is more of a manhandling approach. I'm afraid scrapped knuckles and un-christian language are the order of the day with this ! I would guess it will take about a day to remove. Mine is a Fanalone so the tunnel is similar to yours (but clearence is so limited that you may have to check - is it possible to remove the tunnel?).
I would also suggest that when you put it back you replace the four long fixing screws with good quality cap head screws.

I have a raft of photos of my assembly showing all the areas described. I have also finished restoring my unit, including a few improvements. If you want any of them before you start let me know.
Neil

[Peter Cripps]

Thanks Huib and Neil.

Huib, I'm not sure which steering column I have. It has the later style steering wheel, though, and also the stalk controls are as described in the S2 user manual.

Neil, you are quite right about getting the 4 bolts out. One of them stuck half way undone, but fortunately I was able to free it up by squirting PB Blaster into the thread recess from under the hood.

Only after I had removed the 4 bolts did I realize that the heater assembly wasn't going to come out. Then I looked at Tavola 84B in the Body Assembly Book and realized I was probably attempting the impossible. There is virtually no clearance between the bottom of the heater box and the top of the tunnel. I think the S2 tunnel must have been installed with the heater unit in place.

Removing the tunnel would be a possibility. I would have to cut away the welds and generally make a terrible mess. But I would not do all this just so I could get at the heater fan!

Oh well, who needs a heater in California!

Peter

[Huib]

I have removed plenty of S1 heaters from S1 cars. No problem. Never from a Fanalone though which has a tunnel similar to the S2 tunnel. I believe Neil when he say it is difficult.

The hotter the climate the more you or rather the car may need the heater. It is very usefull in situations where the watertemp suddenly starts to rise.

[Randy Adams]

A long time ago a friend of mine told me that when a car is built, the first item they start with is the heater. I've never pulled a heater out of any of my cars because I am also in California. The pathetic little heater in my Series I coupe ceased to function long before I sold the car. I just wore gloves and a cap when driving in the morning during the winter months.

[Tony Kovacevic]

A few more tricks to assist in removing heaters from Ser1 Fulvias :

1) Wire brush the ends of the heater mount screws where they protrude into the engine bay. Then spray with WD40 or equivalent.

2) Use a pair of good quality Vice Grips to "crack" the heater mounting screws. Once this is done, a long Phillips screwdriver should do the rest. If the screws have been "rounded", continue with the Vice Grips.

3) Sometimes, after this is done, the heater still won't budge. Usually, because it has been stuck to the inside of the firewall for over 40 years. In this case, use muscle and a suitable lever to complete the removal.

[Peter Cripps]

Thanks once again for all the helpful comments!

Despite my previous comment about not needing a heater, I hate having non-working items in my cars. So I thought I'd check the heater core to see if it was going to leak. And, yes, it will! It wouldn't hold any air pressure, so obviously there's a small hole somewhere. So I have a bad core and a non working blower ... great!

My desire now is just to get the whole mess out of there, and then evaluate options. It occurred to me that the reason clearance is needed below the heater is so that it can be dropped far enough to allow the two brass pipes to pass below the top flat section of the firewall. Is this correct?

Here's a picture from the parts book:



I assume that the core (36) actually sits fully inside case (37), with the cover (7) over the top. And that the two pipes stick up through the holes in (7), then pass through (24) to the engine compartment. That's certainly what it looks like, peering up behind the dash in my car.

So I'm thinking I could cut off the two pipes, as far down as possible, reducing the amount of clearance I need below the whole heater assembly. This might give me enough room to pull the whole thing out backwards over the S2 tunnel.

Does this make sense? Thanks for reading though this long description!

Peter

[Huib]

Correct Peter. If you cut off the two pipes you need much less clearance.
But how would you connect the hoses when you put the heater back in?

The picture from the book shows the 1200 coupe heater

[Peter Cripps]

Thanks, Huib.

One possibility for re-connecting the hoses would be to find an internally threaded connector that would not project as far above the top of the core. The hoses would then be attached after the heater assembly was installed.

That's rather optimistic thinking, though!

But even if I could do this, and have the heater matrix re-cored, I don't think the S1 heater is going to work very well in my 'bitsa'. For a start, the lower air outlet flap is almost completely closed against the top of the S2 transmission tunnel.

So I might have to 'invent' a whole new heater assembly, possibly using some parts from the existing unit.

Fortunately, I don't *have* to do anything to continue driving my Fulvia ...

Peter