Moin,
an meiner Fulvia ist hinten ein Bremszylinder undicht. Nun brauche ich Ersatz und bin auf der Suche nach Händlern, die diese Teile haben. Ich habe aber auch gehört, dass diese Dunlop-Teile in den 60ern an einigen Jaguarmodellen (Mk2 oder E-Type S1?) verbaut waren.
Habe in einem Jaguar Katalog gesehen, dass Mk2 Teile auch in Edelstahl lieferbar sind, was das Ganze natürlcih sehr attraktiv machen würde.
Kann mir jemand sagen, wo ich Dunlop Zylinder für eine 69er Fulvia S1 bekomme oder welche Jaguarteile passen?
So long
Ralf
Dunlop Bremszylinder Fulvia S1
-
Huib Geurink
Re: Dunlop Bremszylinder Fulvia S1
Sorry for answering in english. My german is not quite good enough.
It is correct that Jaguar and also Ferrari used the Dunlop brake system. Some others too in fact, but these are the best known.
At the front all types use cilinders with a diameter of 2 1/8 inch which is 54mm. The cilinders at the rear are much smaller and different for all types of cars. The size of the cilinders at the rear depends on the weight and speed of the car. It is important to make sure the rear brakes do not lock to soon. If they do, the rear end of the car will break out and the car will spin around.
The S1 Fulvia coupe and sport models without servo use a diameter of 1 5/16 inch. 1 5/16 can also be written as 21/16. Consequently 21 is the marking on the cilinder. The Fulvia berlina's without servo use 1 3/8 inch and are marked 22.
The last S1 models, berlina GTE and coupe rally 1.3S have a servo. Not the sport 1.3S as there is simply no space to put the servo.
The servo works only on the font wheels. This means more braking force at the front with less pedal force. Since the brake force at the rear is still corresponding directly to the pedal force, the braking at the rear was not enough. To compensate the diameter of the rear cilinder was increased fom 1 5/16" to 1 3/8". This does not seem a lot but remember that braking force is proportional to the surface area of the cilinder thus porportional to the square of the diameter.
It is important to have the correct size at the front as well as at the rear.
Jaguars, Ferrari's and Flaminia's are all much heavier. Their rear brake cilinders are much bigger. As far as I know the smallest one made in stainless steel is 1 1/2". It is much too large for a Fulvia coupe. Unfortunately the original rear cilinders are no longer manufactured
I find putting bushes in the cilinders too dangerous. Brake parts are subject to large temperature variations and very high pressures in emergency situations. If you apply the same tests that brake manufacturers do, the bushes come out within a week.
In addition, the pistons have some parts inside which are often corroded. The nipple at the top of the pistons holding the brake pads is often damaged. Often there is wear on the outside of the pistons too. Sleeving the cilinders is not enough. The pistons also have to be restored.
What I do is grind the cilinders to 0,5 oversize. Then deposit an electroless nickle layer which has uniform thickness followed by a yellow passivated zinc layer.
The inner parts of the pistons are de-rusted, also nickle and zinc plated and transferred to newly machined oversize pistons. For the small ones at the rear I use brass. For the pistons at the front I use stainless steel 430F which has a suitably low coefficient of thermal expansion.
On the callipers themselves you do not want rust either. If they rust, the pads will get stuck. I apply the same process of electroless nickle plating followed by galvanic zinc for the callipers and the parts for the handbrake.
The result is excellent and can still be called original. It also costs less than completely new cilinders in either stainless steel new original ones. Note that new original ones are only available for the front.
It is correct that Jaguar and also Ferrari used the Dunlop brake system. Some others too in fact, but these are the best known.
At the front all types use cilinders with a diameter of 2 1/8 inch which is 54mm. The cilinders at the rear are much smaller and different for all types of cars. The size of the cilinders at the rear depends on the weight and speed of the car. It is important to make sure the rear brakes do not lock to soon. If they do, the rear end of the car will break out and the car will spin around.
The S1 Fulvia coupe and sport models without servo use a diameter of 1 5/16 inch. 1 5/16 can also be written as 21/16. Consequently 21 is the marking on the cilinder. The Fulvia berlina's without servo use 1 3/8 inch and are marked 22.
The last S1 models, berlina GTE and coupe rally 1.3S have a servo. Not the sport 1.3S as there is simply no space to put the servo.
The servo works only on the font wheels. This means more braking force at the front with less pedal force. Since the brake force at the rear is still corresponding directly to the pedal force, the braking at the rear was not enough. To compensate the diameter of the rear cilinder was increased fom 1 5/16" to 1 3/8". This does not seem a lot but remember that braking force is proportional to the surface area of the cilinder thus porportional to the square of the diameter.
It is important to have the correct size at the front as well as at the rear.
Jaguars, Ferrari's and Flaminia's are all much heavier. Their rear brake cilinders are much bigger. As far as I know the smallest one made in stainless steel is 1 1/2". It is much too large for a Fulvia coupe. Unfortunately the original rear cilinders are no longer manufactured
I find putting bushes in the cilinders too dangerous. Brake parts are subject to large temperature variations and very high pressures in emergency situations. If you apply the same tests that brake manufacturers do, the bushes come out within a week.
In addition, the pistons have some parts inside which are often corroded. The nipple at the top of the pistons holding the brake pads is often damaged. Often there is wear on the outside of the pistons too. Sleeving the cilinders is not enough. The pistons also have to be restored.
What I do is grind the cilinders to 0,5 oversize. Then deposit an electroless nickle layer which has uniform thickness followed by a yellow passivated zinc layer.
The inner parts of the pistons are de-rusted, also nickle and zinc plated and transferred to newly machined oversize pistons. For the small ones at the rear I use brass. For the pistons at the front I use stainless steel 430F which has a suitably low coefficient of thermal expansion.
On the callipers themselves you do not want rust either. If they rust, the pads will get stuck. I apply the same process of electroless nickle plating followed by galvanic zinc for the callipers and the parts for the handbrake.
The result is excellent and can still be called original. It also costs less than completely new cilinders in either stainless steel new original ones. Note that new original ones are only available for the front.
-
Bert Ewalds
Re: Dunlop Bremszylinder Fulvia S1
Ralf,
Wichtig isst das mass dess Cylinders, wenn ich mich gut errinere steht dass eingegossen auf dem Gehause, est ist ein Inch Mass (1 1/8 und soweiter)
Vorne und hinten gibts verschiedene Mase und auch die Masse fuer Flavia un Flaminia sind anders
Ich weiss nicht welches Mass auf den fruhen jaguar E types montiert war
neben den E type findet man das system auch auf den Jensen Interceptor und, ( das hat mehr Nuetzen), auf den MG-A Twin Cam. und 1600 Mk II
Das teile nummer fuer den fulvia cylinder ist Girling (ja wirklich) 64932061 und dass bestimmt auch dass mass
Fuer Jaguar teile kannst du dir erkundigen bei
SNG Barratt, www.sngbarratt.com oder verkoop@sngbarratt(holland)
Sie haben eine vetretung in Holland +31 13 5211552
oder Frankreich +33 3 85201420
In Deutschlan
Jaguar-Center (Idstein) 06126/99730
Fuer MG kannst du die bekannte adressen, Limora(auch Jaguar), Kischka oder Anglo Parts anrufen, alle vertreten in Deutschland
Bert
Wichtig isst das mass dess Cylinders, wenn ich mich gut errinere steht dass eingegossen auf dem Gehause, est ist ein Inch Mass (1 1/8 und soweiter)
Vorne und hinten gibts verschiedene Mase und auch die Masse fuer Flavia un Flaminia sind anders
Ich weiss nicht welches Mass auf den fruhen jaguar E types montiert war
neben den E type findet man das system auch auf den Jensen Interceptor und, ( das hat mehr Nuetzen), auf den MG-A Twin Cam. und 1600 Mk II
Das teile nummer fuer den fulvia cylinder ist Girling (ja wirklich) 64932061 und dass bestimmt auch dass mass
Fuer Jaguar teile kannst du dir erkundigen bei
SNG Barratt, www.sngbarratt.com oder verkoop@sngbarratt(holland)
Sie haben eine vetretung in Holland +31 13 5211552
oder Frankreich +33 3 85201420
In Deutschlan
Jaguar-Center (Idstein) 06126/99730
Fuer MG kannst du die bekannte adressen, Limora(auch Jaguar), Kischka oder Anglo Parts anrufen, alle vertreten in Deutschland
Bert
-
Ralf
Re: Dunlop Bremszylinder Fulvia S1
Hallo Huib, hallo Bert,
vielen herzlichen Dank für Eure ausführlichen, kompetenten Antworten!
Ich finde sie extrem hilfreich und fundiert und ich werde mich nun erst einmal auf die Suche nach Neuteilen machen, vielleicht finde ich ja in der MG-Ecke passende Teile. Auf jeden Fall weiß ich jetzt, dass man nicht irgendwelche Teile nehmen kann, die zufälligerweise passen.
Ich werde hier berichten, wenn ich weitergekommen bin.
So long
Ralf
vielen herzlichen Dank für Eure ausführlichen, kompetenten Antworten!
Ich finde sie extrem hilfreich und fundiert und ich werde mich nun erst einmal auf die Suche nach Neuteilen machen, vielleicht finde ich ja in der MG-Ecke passende Teile. Auf jeden Fall weiß ich jetzt, dass man nicht irgendwelche Teile nehmen kann, die zufälligerweise passen.
Ich werde hier berichten, wenn ich weitergekommen bin.
So long
Ralf
Re: Dunlop Bremszylinder Fulvia S1
Hallo Huib,Huib Geurink wrote: ↑29 Apr 2005, 20:57 Sorry for answering in english. My german is not quite good enough.
It is correct that Jaguar and also Ferrari used the Dunlop brake system. Some others too in fact, but these are the best known.
At the front all types use cilinders with a diameter of 2 1/8 inch which is 54mm. The cilinders at the rear are much smaller and different for all types of cars. The size of the cilinders at the rear depends on the weight and speed of the car. It is important to make sure the rear brakes do not lock to soon. If they do, the rear end of the car will break out and the car will spin around.
The S1 Fulvia coupe and sport models without servo use a diameter of 1 5/16 inch. 1 5/16 can also be written as 21/16. Consequently 21 is the marking on the cilinder. The Fulvia berlina's without servo use 1 3/8 inch and are marked 22.
The last S1 models, berlina GTE and coupe rally 1.3S have a servo. Not the sport 1.3S as there is simply no space to put the servo.
The servo works only on the font wheels. This means more braking force at the front with less pedal force. Since the brake force at the rear is still corresponding directly to the pedal force, the braking at the rear was not enough. To compensate the diameter of the rear cilinder was increased fom 1 5/16" to 1 3/8". This does not seem a lot but remember that braking force is proportional to the surface area of the cilinder thus porportional to the square of the diameter.
It is important to have the correct size at the front as well as at the rear.
Jaguars, Ferrari's and Flaminia's are all much heavier. Their rear brake cilinders are much bigger. As far as I know the smallest one made in stainless steel is 1 1/2". It is much too large for a Fulvia coupe. Unfortunately the original rear cilinders are no longer manufactured
I find putting bushes in the cilinders too dangerous. Brake parts are subject to large temperature variations and very high pressures in emergency situations. If you apply the same tests that brake manufacturers do, the bushes come out within a week.
In addition, the pistons have some parts inside which are often corroded. The nipple at the top of the pistons holding the brake pads is often damaged. Often there is wear on the outside of the pistons too. Sleeving the cilinders is not enough. The pistons also have to be restored.
What I do is grind the cilinders to 0,5 oversize. Then deposit an electroless nickle layer which has uniform thickness followed by a yellow passivated zinc layer.
The inner parts of the pistons are de-rusted, also nickle and zinc plated and transferred to newly machined oversize pistons. For the small ones at the rear I use brass. For the pistons at the front I use stainless steel 430F which has a suitably low coefficient of thermal expansion.
On the callipers themselves you do not want rust either. If they rust, the pads will get stuck. I apply the same process of electroless nickle plating followed by galvanic zinc for the callipers and the parts for the handbrake.
The result is excellent and can still be called original. It also costs less than completely new cilinders in either stainless steel new original ones. Note that new original ones are only available for the front.
ich bin beim Stöbern auf deinen Beitrag von 2005 gestoßen in dem du beschreibst wie du deine Radbremszylinder in einem chemischen Verfahren mit einer Nickeloberfläche beschichtest. Ich bin gerade dabei die vorderen Zylinder meiner Fulvia 1. Serie zu überholen und möchte diese mit deinem Verfahren vernickeln. Kannst du mir bitte den Hersteller des Nickelelektrolyt nennen und vielleicht auch kurz beschreiben wie du den Zylinder vorbehandelt und dann chemisch vernickelt hast (muss der ganze Zylinder in den Nickelelektrolyt oder hast du nur den Zylinder damit befüllt) ?
Vielen Dank vielleicht kannst du dich noch an die Einzelheiten erinnern - liegt ja schon einige Jahre zurück, aber das Thema ist immer noch aktuell !
Danke und Grüße Volker