Hello all,
I am restaurating at the moment a GT from 1959 (i think). Chassis no 824 00 1107, engine no. 1198. The comes from the US but that is all i know , maybe the is some outthere who knows some from my car!!!!
I does anybody know if Touring gave a special chassis no to there cars if so wre can i find this on the car.
May thanks i the er is help ou there .
Regards Jeroen from the netherlands
Touring chassis no.
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Randy Adams
Re: Touring chassis no.
Hi Jeroen:
Congratulations on your lovely new purchase.
Touring DID apply their own body numbers. There should be a plate on the bulkhead (what we americans call the "firewall") with Carrozzeria Touring's name and another number. This will be the body number. On my cars, this plate is near the location of the ignition coil. Unfortunately, right now both of my Touring models are away from home but I will post their numbers when I retrieve them.
Randy
Congratulations on your lovely new purchase.
Touring DID apply their own body numbers. There should be a plate on the bulkhead (what we americans call the "firewall") with Carrozzeria Touring's name and another number. This will be the body number. On my cars, this plate is near the location of the ignition coil. Unfortunately, right now both of my Touring models are away from home but I will post their numbers when I retrieve them.
Randy
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Randy Adams
Re: Touring chassis no.
Okay, Jeroen, I just rescued my convertible from the remote garage.
It was sold here in the U.S. as a 1961 model. The Carrozzeria Touring plate on the bulkhead (right above the ignition coil) shows a body number of 8203.
In the same garage I keep a Touring coupe 3C (824.10) model which is a nonrunning project. This car was sold in the U.S. as a 1962 model. The Carrozzeria Touring plate on the bulkhead (also right above the ignition coil) shows a body number of 11588.
It is my understanding that Touring assigned numbers to a body according to how many bodies in total they had built regardless of the model. Hence, between the Flaminia convertible with body number 8203 and the Flaminia GT coupe with body number 11588, they built other Flaminias as well as a number of Maserati 3500 coupes and quite a few Alfa Romeo 2000 and 2600 convertibles and whatever else Touring were building at that time. They all went into the same numerical sequence.
It was sold here in the U.S. as a 1961 model. The Carrozzeria Touring plate on the bulkhead (right above the ignition coil) shows a body number of 8203.
In the same garage I keep a Touring coupe 3C (824.10) model which is a nonrunning project. This car was sold in the U.S. as a 1962 model. The Carrozzeria Touring plate on the bulkhead (also right above the ignition coil) shows a body number of 11588.
It is my understanding that Touring assigned numbers to a body according to how many bodies in total they had built regardless of the model. Hence, between the Flaminia convertible with body number 8203 and the Flaminia GT coupe with body number 11588, they built other Flaminias as well as a number of Maserati 3500 coupes and quite a few Alfa Romeo 2000 and 2600 convertibles and whatever else Touring were building at that time. They all went into the same numerical sequence.
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Michael Southgate
Re: Touring chassis no.
Hello Jeroen,
I have a Touring 3C 2.5 litre that's been traced to 1962 as well, and this would line up with what Randy has told you, since my Touring body number is 11572. Mine was originally a LHD car converted to RHD I guess some time in the early 70s when it was brought into Australia.
My Touring body number is located on the firewall to the left of centre as you look from the front of the car. The Lancia number is adjacent to it, but also, the Lancia number is embossed into the the bonnet recess on the car's right hand side.
Good luck with your car.
I have a Touring 3C 2.5 litre that's been traced to 1962 as well, and this would line up with what Randy has told you, since my Touring body number is 11572. Mine was originally a LHD car converted to RHD I guess some time in the early 70s when it was brought into Australia.
My Touring body number is located on the firewall to the left of centre as you look from the front of the car. The Lancia number is adjacent to it, but also, the Lancia number is embossed into the the bonnet recess on the car's right hand side.
Good luck with your car.
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Jeroen Zweers
Re: Touring chassis no.
Hello Randy and Michael,
Thanks for your answeres. This weekend i found the plate it was in a plasticbag with alot of screws and it whas total black. But i saw there was a number on it. After i cleaned the plate (see the photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaminia/57618363/ ) I saw it whas the number i whas looking for. After seeing the no. it must be a 1959. Still is dificult to trace the care. Maybe you know Randy . Is it possible to trace the car if the is no title in the US. I am almost sure the car is from California. It whas expoted to the Netherlands in 1991 and stayed in a barn for 14 years and it whas already disassambled. The Lancia club in the Netherlands told me that there are no records of Touring the told me everthing whas burned, is this treu.
What i also found out this weekend that a car who is for sale in Australia is the car which has come out of the factory in 1959, what a coninsadence!!!!!!!!
http://www.lanciaaustralia.com.au/pages ... 0Flamina's
Maybe someone got some answeres for me. And again Randy and Michael many Thanks
Jeroen
Thanks for your answeres. This weekend i found the plate it was in a plasticbag with alot of screws and it whas total black. But i saw there was a number on it. After i cleaned the plate (see the photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/flaminia/57618363/ ) I saw it whas the number i whas looking for. After seeing the no. it must be a 1959. Still is dificult to trace the care. Maybe you know Randy . Is it possible to trace the car if the is no title in the US. I am almost sure the car is from California. It whas expoted to the Netherlands in 1991 and stayed in a barn for 14 years and it whas already disassambled. The Lancia club in the Netherlands told me that there are no records of Touring the told me everthing whas burned, is this treu.
What i also found out this weekend that a car who is for sale in Australia is the car which has come out of the factory in 1959, what a coninsadence!!!!!!!!
http://www.lanciaaustralia.com.au/pages ... 0Flamina's
Maybe someone got some answeres for me. And again Randy and Michael many Thanks
Jeroen
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Bert Ewalds
Re: Touring chassis no.
The statement that all the Touring papers have been burned comes from a peronal account of Aldo Rizzi, administrative director of the Carozzeria at the time it went bankrupt. Mr Rizzi is still alive.
You can find it in the book Il Signor Touring, published by Giacomo Tavoletti,a personal friend of Mr Anderloni and the Registrar of the Registro Internazionele Touring Superleggera.
According to the same book all Touring Flaminia bodies have a body number between 11400 and 14000
According to the same book, the first GT was built late April 1959, while the first convertibles were built early 1960, the cars were supplied to Lancia at a rate of 10-15 per week
Bert
You can find it in the book Il Signor Touring, published by Giacomo Tavoletti,a personal friend of Mr Anderloni and the Registrar of the Registro Internazionele Touring Superleggera.
According to the same book all Touring Flaminia bodies have a body number between 11400 and 14000
According to the same book, the first GT was built late April 1959, while the first convertibles were built early 1960, the cars were supplied to Lancia at a rate of 10-15 per week
Bert
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Randy Adams
Re: Touring chassis no.
Actually, the earlier (1983) book by Angelo Tito Anselmi reports that many of Touring's papers were burned, but not all of them. Carlo Felice Bianchi Anderloni returned to the Nova Milanese premises to discover a couple of bonfires of Touring documents. Anselmi quotes Anderloni as saying "I took what I could lay hands on, without really thinking about what I was doing." He was assisted by his draftsman Federico Formenti. So some Touring documents survive but many are lost.
The number on my 1961 Flaminia convertible proves the chassis number information in the new "Il Signor Touring" book to be inaccurate.
Jeroen, unfortunately I do not have any good suggestions as to how you can trace the ownership on a car originally sold in California in 1959. The California Department of Motor Vehicles purges its records of vehicle registrations periodically. I believe that vehicles for which registration has not been renewed for three years are deleted from the system. If your vehicle left the state in 1991, it will have been removed from the Department's records.
You might make inquiry of the American Lancia Club. They have a website of their own. If you post the chassis number and anything else that you know about the car, there is a small possibility that someone will know something.
The number on my 1961 Flaminia convertible proves the chassis number information in the new "Il Signor Touring" book to be inaccurate.
Jeroen, unfortunately I do not have any good suggestions as to how you can trace the ownership on a car originally sold in California in 1959. The California Department of Motor Vehicles purges its records of vehicle registrations periodically. I believe that vehicles for which registration has not been renewed for three years are deleted from the system. If your vehicle left the state in 1991, it will have been removed from the Department's records.
You might make inquiry of the American Lancia Club. They have a website of their own. If you post the chassis number and anything else that you know about the car, there is a small possibility that someone will know something.
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Bert Ewalds
Re: Touring chassis no.
A few years earlier, the same Tito Anselmi (Automotive Quarterly Q-3, 1980) reports that Mr Anderloni had never had the courage to sort the remaining material, and that it was stored in the care of a trusted friend.
This may have changed , because in the Italian video interview, taken about a year before his death, he shows various documents
However, also the latest publication Of the Touring register, a special on the Flaminia, I did not see any numbers etc (I only glanced through the booklet, I do not own a copy) it was published about a month ago.
Bert
This may have changed , because in the Italian video interview, taken about a year before his death, he shows various documents
However, also the latest publication Of the Touring register, a special on the Flaminia, I did not see any numbers etc (I only glanced through the booklet, I do not own a copy) it was published about a month ago.
Bert
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George
Re: Touring chassis no.
Quite strange this numbering business at Touring - I checked my cars and found the following numbers on the plates:
- no. 8206 (very close to Randy's car) for an early 3C 2.5 Convertibile. According to information received from Fiat Archivio Storico the car was produced on 23 March 1962.
- no. 11241 for a GT 3C 2.5, produced on 31 August 1962.
That's a gap of almost 3'000 cars! My best guess is that Touring must have produced a certain number of bodies numbering them in consecutive order. Comparing with Randy's no. it appears that these bodies were not used at the same time, and mine must have been lying around for a year or so before the car was fitted with engine, running gear, etc. and interior trim until it was recorded as produced in March 1962. Up to now I did not understand how Touring could have produced almost 3'000 cars between March and August 1962, but I believe we have the answer now.
Happy motoring to all and thanks to Jeroen for his question that brought up some interesting information.
George
- no. 8206 (very close to Randy's car) for an early 3C 2.5 Convertibile. According to information received from Fiat Archivio Storico the car was produced on 23 March 1962.
- no. 11241 for a GT 3C 2.5, produced on 31 August 1962.
That's a gap of almost 3'000 cars! My best guess is that Touring must have produced a certain number of bodies numbering them in consecutive order. Comparing with Randy's no. it appears that these bodies were not used at the same time, and mine must have been lying around for a year or so before the car was fitted with engine, running gear, etc. and interior trim until it was recorded as produced in March 1962. Up to now I did not understand how Touring could have produced almost 3'000 cars between March and August 1962, but I believe we have the answer now.
Happy motoring to all and thanks to Jeroen for his question that brought up some interesting information.
George
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Randy Adams
Re: Touring chassis no.
Yours is very interesting information, George. So much for trying to rationalize the body numbers.
I remember reading that Lancia updated some unsold Flaminias to newer models, giving them new chassis numbers in the process. Perhaps this occurred with your convertible. In other words, it might have started life as a single carb car like mine and then been updated to a 3C specification and identity after not selling. However, I thought the updating of unsold stocks was something that happened later, after the introduction of the 826 series cars.
Does your convertible have the later dashboard with the single triangular fitting for the turn indicators/main beams? Or does it have the early type with the three separate circular moldings, one each for the direction indicator lights and for the main beam telltale?
I remember reading that Lancia updated some unsold Flaminias to newer models, giving them new chassis numbers in the process. Perhaps this occurred with your convertible. In other words, it might have started life as a single carb car like mine and then been updated to a 3C specification and identity after not selling. However, I thought the updating of unsold stocks was something that happened later, after the introduction of the 826 series cars.
Does your convertible have the later dashboard with the single triangular fitting for the turn indicators/main beams? Or does it have the early type with the three separate circular moldings, one each for the direction indicator lights and for the main beam telltale?