The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
By now we have all seen the pictures of the prototype of a possible new Fulvietta. I have three of the original Fulvietta’s. Two 1967 first series rallye 1.3 (my favourites) and a 1976 series 3. They are being used as daily drivers by myself, my wife and occasionally the kids. They are used for rallies as well as vacations to Italy or anywhere else. Combined mileage is about 45.000 km per year. They are reliable, economical, safe, a pleasure to drive and easy to maintain. True drivers cars, certainly for those who prefer country road to motorways like we do.
Permit me to be a bit sceptical of the new Fulvietta. It seems to be the fashion for car makers to revive old names / models. I haven’t seen one yet that really honours its ancestor. If the new Fulvietta is a cheap commercial trick to get more sales I am very much against it.
As I said the original Fulvietta has all a drivers car needs. It is a true Lancia too. Stopwatch figures are not very impressive, but on public roads in real life it takes you from A to B in a very short time with pleasure, ease, confidence and safety. It does this well in summer and in winter.
The original Fulvietta has only three shortcomings: too heavy, too much noise and not enough ventilation. The weight is the result of Lancia’s engineering for safety and quality. The noise is actually quite nice up to speeds of 140km/h with the windows closed. However, since ventilation is inadequate windows have to be opened on warmer days which makes long motorway cruising a burden.
Car manufacturers generally see their customers as a foetus which they want to put back into the womb. The characteristic of the womb is that the foetus is kept at constant temperature and does not have to do anything him/herself.
I like to think of myself as being born onto this world and capable of doing my own braking, steering, gear shifting, temperature adjustments and whatever is necessary to drive a Fulvietta. If any car manufacturer thinks I am a foetus, he is insulting me. Some may go through the tunnel just to see the light. I went through that tunnel 56 years ago to drive a Fulvietta and to do so using my own mind and my own muscles. I have found this out only 7 years ago, but there it is. And here I am. I don’t drive through the Gotthard tunnel, I drive over the passo gottardo.
To make the new Fulvia a true drivers car, a worthy successor and an immense success the following is necessary:
1. brake servo, power steering, climate control and everything else that adds weight, cost, complexity without being a basic requirement for a car goes out. Period. No compromise, no bullshit.
2. all parts will be beautifully engineered for their function and be light weight.
3. if a designer asks his boss to make a choice between handling and anything else, the designer will be fired (and the boss too)
4. The front of the proposed Fulvietta is a disaster. It must be modified to look decent and either have four 5 ¾ inch lights or the headlight arrangement of the Fanalone. The ultra modern Cibie Surface Complex headlights have impressive performance. Various people try to sell you the HID (Xenon) lights. Don’t fall for their crap.
5. If Zagato is to build the cars, it is even more necessary to found a union of Lancisti, which puts a quality inspector in their facility.
Have a look at the Lotus cars, the only true sports cars left on this world. Very much drivers cars. Not because of all sorts of complicated electronics to correct for design errors and compromises, but because every part and every function is designed with only one goal in mind: to build a true drivers sports car. Lancia should use the same philosophy, not to build a sports car but to build a true drivers Gran Turismo car, the new Fulvietta. Back to driving a car.
FULVIA = Fantastic Ultimate Leisure Vehicle Inadvertently Addictive
Huib
Re: The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
yes huib you`re so right!
just take a short look at detroit theses days: almost wrong cars for wrong people!
a real lancia is a true, modern (not stylish) pure, simple, well detailed and sophisticated driver car with no gimmicks and retro-fashioned attitudes. but im afraid that we are meanwhile much more than a bit old fashioned and mainstream (money not value) is against us. >>> slow down pleasure up!
but hope still remains
yours jambo.
just take a short look at detroit theses days: almost wrong cars for wrong people!
a real lancia is a true, modern (not stylish) pure, simple, well detailed and sophisticated driver car with no gimmicks and retro-fashioned attitudes. but im afraid that we are meanwhile much more than a bit old fashioned and mainstream (money not value) is against us. >>> slow down pleasure up!
but hope still remains
yours jambo.
And in addition
I don't want to drive a flying saucer or any sort of space capsule. I don't want to be a foetus floating around without clues. I want the front wings and the center of the bonnet to be visual anchors for the world around me. Clearly visible thus from the drivers seat.
It is very, very relaxing to have these anchors. Not having these anchors overloads the subconscious. Drive a 1st series Flavia berlina. Open your input system and you will feel what I mean.
It is very, very relaxing to have these anchors. Not having these anchors overloads the subconscious. Drive a 1st series Flavia berlina. Open your input system and you will feel what I mean.
Re: And in addition
it is a hard fact that we will not get a fulvia designed like the old car, it always seems that there is a fundamental difference between all modern cars and Lancia pre-fiat and that is that Lancia engineers seem to have always sought the very best solution for every problem whereas in modern cars an unsatisfactory (but cheap) solution is sought and then they try to make it work better; fulvias (and flavias) drive so well because they are fundamentally well designed. Despite all the years of progress I do not believe that there has been any popular design of front wheel drive car that can match the essential rightness of the fulvia/flavia design. Having said all that I still could be interested in the new car but god forbid if they dare to call it 'Fulvia'
Re: The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
Money not value, quite right as you say it.
In my words it would be "form not content". I have been told that for humans this is the surest way for getting cancer. Perhaps true. For companies it is the surest way for going from one crisis to another. Certainly true.
Making money can never be a core business. It is the natural result of being good at one's core business.
In my words it would be "form not content". I have been told that for humans this is the surest way for getting cancer. Perhaps true. For companies it is the surest way for going from one crisis to another. Certainly true.
Making money can never be a core business. It is the natural result of being good at one's core business.
Re: And in addition
I agree totally, Alan.
Either continue on the Fulvia philosophy or call it something else. I certainly don't mean to turn the clock.back. It should be a contemporary car. Not even space technology. Just for once, please, all the trade offs and design decisions in favour of a few hundred thousands of humble humans who simply want to enjoy driving a car instead of being trapped in the basterd mixture of a bordello and a Nintendo game.
Either continue on the Fulvia philosophy or call it something else. I certainly don't mean to turn the clock.back. It should be a contemporary car. Not even space technology. Just for once, please, all the trade offs and design decisions in favour of a few hundred thousands of humble humans who simply want to enjoy driving a car instead of being trapped in the basterd mixture of a bordello and a Nintendo game.
Re: And in addition
Here in the U.S., you can't get a Porsche without power steering.
I totally agree with Huib. One small correction, though. In the mid-1960s, the Fulvia coupe was heart-stoppingly stylish. It was not a subtle looking car. Regardless of the angle it was viewed from, it looked only like a Fulvia.
I'd love a new small displacement V-4 engined car. After all, VW has picked up on the rationality of the narrow-V concept. I'm prepared to accept excess weight so long as it is found in structural places and large bearings.
If Lancia had been serious about distributing their cars in the U.S. in the mid-to-late 60's, the company would still be independent today. The Fulvia beat the contemporary BMW 1600 on every parameter.
The engine
I was getting to the engine, Randy. The narrow V4 is of course very, very desirable. Shall we put it as a "must"?
Personally I find the transversely mounted engines to be uncomfortable. No matter what is done to reduce vibration, the remaining vibration attacks my sensitory input system. Not so with the longitudinally mounted engine. Its vibration is in fact stimulating. Even more so with the narrow V4.
Wasn't the reason for putting the engine east-west to increase the ratio between space inside versus overall length?
I seem to remember that the Mini was the first car wit the engine east-west. Twenty years before that Vincenzo introduced the Ardea, a similar sized car with a narrow V4 north-south. I would like to compare the distance between front bumper and pedals for both cars. I bet the difference is not even1 cm. Probably 5 mm.
I also look forward to a comparative test between a late thirties Ardea and a late fifties Mini.
Personally I find the transversely mounted engines to be uncomfortable. No matter what is done to reduce vibration, the remaining vibration attacks my sensitory input system. Not so with the longitudinally mounted engine. Its vibration is in fact stimulating. Even more so with the narrow V4.
Wasn't the reason for putting the engine east-west to increase the ratio between space inside versus overall length?
I seem to remember that the Mini was the first car wit the engine east-west. Twenty years before that Vincenzo introduced the Ardea, a similar sized car with a narrow V4 north-south. I would like to compare the distance between front bumper and pedals for both cars. I bet the difference is not even1 cm. Probably 5 mm.
I also look forward to a comparative test between a late thirties Ardea and a late fifties Mini.
Re: The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
How about Lancia / Zagato build a Lusso and a Superleggera version
Where the Superleggera misses the following items compared to the Lusso
no abs
no electric windows / mirrors
no climate Control
no airbags
no brake servo
no power steering
no sound proofing
no 2+2 rear seats (these will be replaced with the F550 Maranello type suitcase straps)
no heavy/comfy, driver / passenger seats, just super light like the ones seen in the FIAT Ecobasic (excuse my French!).
no trip computer
no audio system
no spare wheel
no passenger side rear view mirror
no cupholders, thanks
If it is built by Zagato, it should of course be aluminum and should thus keep the weight for the Sl. under 900kg. A narrow angle 4 cylinder V would be nice but I don't think that is achievable in FIAT's current financial situation. Plus I am not sure a longitudinal fitted engine would fit on the floorpan of the Barchetta.
A 1.8 litre 4 cylinder line engine boosting 150bhp would keep me quite happy.
I agree the proposed front of the Fulvietta is not very pretty.
Lets hope somebody with influence in the project follows the discussion.
-Pieter.
Where the Superleggera misses the following items compared to the Lusso
no abs
no electric windows / mirrors
no climate Control
no airbags
no brake servo
no power steering
no sound proofing
no 2+2 rear seats (these will be replaced with the F550 Maranello type suitcase straps)
no heavy/comfy, driver / passenger seats, just super light like the ones seen in the FIAT Ecobasic (excuse my French!).
no trip computer
no audio system
no spare wheel
no passenger side rear view mirror
no cupholders, thanks
If it is built by Zagato, it should of course be aluminum and should thus keep the weight for the Sl. under 900kg. A narrow angle 4 cylinder V would be nice but I don't think that is achievable in FIAT's current financial situation. Plus I am not sure a longitudinal fitted engine would fit on the floorpan of the Barchetta.
A 1.8 litre 4 cylinder line engine boosting 150bhp would keep me quite happy.
I agree the proposed front of the Fulvietta is not very pretty.
Lets hope somebody with influence in the project follows the discussion.
-Pieter.
Re: The new Fulvietta, what does it add to the world?
That is the spirit, Peter. Everything goes out and we go in.
The narrow V4 would be the cream on the pudding. Certainly not an audio system.
Does it really cost that much to design one (I mean a V4, not an audio system)? I bet the cost can be hidden in the expense account of the boss. If the boss eats at MacDonalds or the pizzeria for a month (or two) we have our narrow V4. Maybe we should all help a bit and set up a schedule for bringing him sandwiches for lunch. The engineer who designed the Fulvia engines designed the 1600 engine on his own kitchen table as Lancia did not have a budget for it. That is the true Italian spirit. That is the spirit which results in una bella macchina. Maybe there is not even an other way.
We are not asking that much. We are not asking for a narrow V5. We are just asking for a straigt forward, sorry zig zag forward V4.
Also of course the driver should have a proper dashboard in front of him. Not a Christmas tree.
Once upon a time studying was invented for people who were afraid to work. The problem today is that all the kids coming from college have not been told that everything which has to be studied is fantasy. If it was reality one could see it and feel it and one did not have to study it.
Knowledge is on one hand necessary but on the other hand extremely dangerous. Knowledge is by definition always old. If it hasn't happened you can't know it.
Feeling is never old. It is always in the present. Once cars were designed by feeling. Today college professors tell the kids how they can make a car look, smell en feel as if it was made by feeling. It is going to backfire. In fact it is backfiring. If they weren't blind, deaf and mute the Fiat people would have the advantage of being the first to be taught the lesson.
You mention the barchetta platform. I hope you are wrong. To get any decent steering one needs double wishbones at the front like the Flaminia, Flavia and Fulvia and all of today's Formula 1 cars. I am not sure the barchetta has that. And it is about 14 years old. If they use a 14 year old shitty platform, I will go and buy a Lada and change the name of this website in viva-lada.com.
Who invented all this platform business by the way? He (I am sure it is not a she) should be put in front of the firing squad. I don't want to take a train. I want to drive a car.
The narrow V4 would be the cream on the pudding. Certainly not an audio system.
Does it really cost that much to design one (I mean a V4, not an audio system)? I bet the cost can be hidden in the expense account of the boss. If the boss eats at MacDonalds or the pizzeria for a month (or two) we have our narrow V4. Maybe we should all help a bit and set up a schedule for bringing him sandwiches for lunch. The engineer who designed the Fulvia engines designed the 1600 engine on his own kitchen table as Lancia did not have a budget for it. That is the true Italian spirit. That is the spirit which results in una bella macchina. Maybe there is not even an other way.
We are not asking that much. We are not asking for a narrow V5. We are just asking for a straigt forward, sorry zig zag forward V4.
Also of course the driver should have a proper dashboard in front of him. Not a Christmas tree.
Once upon a time studying was invented for people who were afraid to work. The problem today is that all the kids coming from college have not been told that everything which has to be studied is fantasy. If it was reality one could see it and feel it and one did not have to study it.
Knowledge is on one hand necessary but on the other hand extremely dangerous. Knowledge is by definition always old. If it hasn't happened you can't know it.
Feeling is never old. It is always in the present. Once cars were designed by feeling. Today college professors tell the kids how they can make a car look, smell en feel as if it was made by feeling. It is going to backfire. In fact it is backfiring. If they weren't blind, deaf and mute the Fiat people would have the advantage of being the first to be taught the lesson.
You mention the barchetta platform. I hope you are wrong. To get any decent steering one needs double wishbones at the front like the Flaminia, Flavia and Fulvia and all of today's Formula 1 cars. I am not sure the barchetta has that. And it is about 14 years old. If they use a 14 year old shitty platform, I will go and buy a Lada and change the name of this website in viva-lada.com.
Who invented all this platform business by the way? He (I am sure it is not a she) should be put in front of the firing squad. I don't want to take a train. I want to drive a car.