Hello,
does anybody know what the valve install height should be on a Fulvia Engine? Or alternatively the spring load when the valve is closed for the different engine series?
thanks
luca
Valve spring height
Re: Valve spring height
thank You Giovanni.
I believe the chart shows the actual spring rate, but it does not really tell (if I understand it correctly) valve spring load or valve spring height when installed in the engine. Depending on how valve seats (and head) are machined the valve stem may protude more or less from the guide. As a result the distance between top and bottom valve spring retainers may vary and valve springs may be more or less compressed. Within reason, this is not a big deal on a road car, but it is on a racing engine (like mine).
Some car manifacturer provide valve spring height (distance between top and bottom spring retainer) in the workshop manual, but I could not find this information for the Fulvia engine. If the distance is too large one could shim the bottom retainer to make sure the spring is properly preloaded.
thanks
luca
I believe the chart shows the actual spring rate, but it does not really tell (if I understand it correctly) valve spring load or valve spring height when installed in the engine. Depending on how valve seats (and head) are machined the valve stem may protude more or less from the guide. As a result the distance between top and bottom valve spring retainers may vary and valve springs may be more or less compressed. Within reason, this is not a big deal on a road car, but it is on a racing engine (like mine).
Some car manifacturer provide valve spring height (distance between top and bottom spring retainer) in the workshop manual, but I could not find this information for the Fulvia engine. If the distance is too large one could shim the bottom retainer to make sure the spring is properly preloaded.
thanks
luca
Re: Valve spring height
Hi Luca,
on that chart you can find the only available data given to check the valve springs, that data shown the load to be applied to reach a certain spring height: 35mm for the external spring and 33,5 for the internal one.(36,82 mm and 34,32 mm for 818.540)
eg. for engine 818.000, to stay on std specification you have to apply to the internal spring a load from 16,150 to 17,850 Kg to reach an height of 35mm
I can not chekc now but I guess that the given heights are the ones that the springs assumes when installed on the engine. Maybe you can check and let us know.
Hoping that these info will be useful for you.
Kind regards
Giovanni
on that chart you can find the only available data given to check the valve springs, that data shown the load to be applied to reach a certain spring height: 35mm for the external spring and 33,5 for the internal one.(36,82 mm and 34,32 mm for 818.540)
eg. for engine 818.000, to stay on std specification you have to apply to the internal spring a load from 16,150 to 17,850 Kg to reach an height of 35mm
I can not chekc now but I guess that the given heights are the ones that the springs assumes when installed on the engine. Maybe you can check and let us know.
Hoping that these info will be useful for you.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Re: Valve spring height
thank You Giovanni,
I should have ginven more details, let me ammend it.
My concern is that mine is a GR4 engine, and the valve height changes with the valve seat cut. Also the head machining may not be identical for all valves, so it's common practice on race engines to shim the valve springs (on the bottom) to get the desired (and identical) valve height/compression.
Not a big deal on a stock engine, but really important on a race one that spins up to 9000 RPM. The proof that my valves were struggling is that the groove where the 2 cones sits was damaged and I had to file it a bit to remove some of the valves.
I assume that all the scratching You see on the stem happened when the valve slightly moved at high RPM. As I'm rebuilding it I really do not want this from happening again!
thanks
luca
I should have ginven more details, let me ammend it.
My concern is that mine is a GR4 engine, and the valve height changes with the valve seat cut. Also the head machining may not be identical for all valves, so it's common practice on race engines to shim the valve springs (on the bottom) to get the desired (and identical) valve height/compression.
Not a big deal on a stock engine, but really important on a race one that spins up to 9000 RPM. The proof that my valves were struggling is that the groove where the 2 cones sits was damaged and I had to file it a bit to remove some of the valves.
I assume that all the scratching You see on the stem happened when the valve slightly moved at high RPM. As I'm rebuilding it I really do not want this from happening again!
thanks
luca
Re: Valve spring height
Dear Luca,
I'm a bit surprised that you kept the stock valve springs on a GR4 engine capable of 9.000 r.p.m....
Giovanni
I'm a bit surprised that you kept the stock valve springs on a GR4 engine capable of 9.000 r.p.m....
Giovanni
Re: Valve spring height
No Giovanni, I did not.
I'm restoring a former racing FSZ that was parked in the 90's with the engine originally built by Facetti, this car has an amazing racing history which includes 5 targa Florio.
The engine did have stronger springs (yet to be meausured), but despite the stronger springs there is some damage on the valve stem. I am just trying to understand what can I do to avoid this from happening again.
luca
I'm restoring a former racing FSZ that was parked in the 90's with the engine originally built by Facetti, this car has an amazing racing history which includes 5 targa Florio.
The engine did have stronger springs (yet to be meausured), but despite the stronger springs there is some damage on the valve stem. I am just trying to understand what can I do to avoid this from happening again.
luca
Re: Valve spring height
Ciao Luca,
thank you for the clarification, now I've understood...
Giovanni
thank you for the clarification, now I've understood...
Giovanni
Re: Valve spring height
It is really a Facetti engine then.
I met Carlo Facetti twice. First time I did not know.
I was driving south from Rotterdam to Breda in my Flavia coupé and stopped on the parking near Dordrecht. I parked my Flavia next to a couple of Fulvia coupé's with Italian plates and in race trim and a service van. So I stood peeing in line with a bunch of Italians. Many years later I realized one of them must have been Carlo Facetti returning from Zandvoort race track to Milano. He won first place in Zandvoort. Champion of the Netherlands.
Second time I saw him was about twenty years ago at his work shop just north of Milano, Could have been Cormano. I went there with a friend in his recently restored Beta spider. There are more than a few Italians from whom I learned a lot. Carlo Facetti is one of them. My friend and I had just agreed that Carlo's rate of 500,000 lire for a Fulvia engine service including adjusting carburetors and ignition. When Carlo had looked at the Beta spider, he offered 35 million. That was the most decent and realistic price possible exactly covering the purchase of a spider and the cost of restauration. Thank you, Carlo. The example of a true champion.
Carlo had in his workshop a stunning Cord from the 30's.
I met Carlo Facetti twice. First time I did not know.
I was driving south from Rotterdam to Breda in my Flavia coupé and stopped on the parking near Dordrecht. I parked my Flavia next to a couple of Fulvia coupé's with Italian plates and in race trim and a service van. So I stood peeing in line with a bunch of Italians. Many years later I realized one of them must have been Carlo Facetti returning from Zandvoort race track to Milano. He won first place in Zandvoort. Champion of the Netherlands.
Second time I saw him was about twenty years ago at his work shop just north of Milano, Could have been Cormano. I went there with a friend in his recently restored Beta spider. There are more than a few Italians from whom I learned a lot. Carlo Facetti is one of them. My friend and I had just agreed that Carlo's rate of 500,000 lire for a Fulvia engine service including adjusting carburetors and ignition. When Carlo had looked at the Beta spider, he offered 35 million. That was the most decent and realistic price possible exactly covering the purchase of a spider and the cost of restauration. Thank you, Carlo. The example of a true champion.
Carlo had in his workshop a stunning Cord from the 30's.
Re: Valve spring height
Do you have some pic´s from your Zag
regards Andreas
regards Andreas