Hello everyone,
I am currently in a financial position where I can consider purchasing what is my most realistic dream car, a Fulvia 1.6Hf. Unfortunately, the country I'm from (Malta), has no dealers, or restorers for Lancia's in general. Hence, the only way I'll ever be able to purchase the right Fulvia is by purchasing one from the EU, and planning a grand roadtrip back home in it.
My biggest issue are 3 things:
1. How reliable are Fulvia's for long distance journeys? The cars where originally designed to run the 2000mile rally stage, however 40 years later the story changes a bit. I understand that this is all down to how well the car was kept, and how good of a restoration was made on it, but what are the most important things to look out for when it comes to reliability?
2. Should I consider any Fulvia 1.6Hf or would it be better to look at the Fanalone?? I noticed that the Fanalone is ridiculously more expensive .. why's that?? And what about the Zagato sport? Is it worth considering too? Personally the Fanalone is my favourite, and then I'd opt for a coupé. The Zagato's front grill and lights are somewhat tacky when comparing it to the true Fulvia.
3. How do I go about finding out all the details of the car from just acquiring the chassis number?
As a Fulvia fan, my only interest is in owning a piece of motorsport history. I'd rather wait to find the perfect car, than settle for having a poorly rebuilt classic.
Looking forward to hearing from the forum.
Matt
Purchasing a Fulvia
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
Matt,
There’s no better answer to Q1 than the one you already know; it’s all down to the condition of the individual example. Fulvias are very robust, with very simple and very well-engineered components; assuming the body is solid, and that the brakes and suspension components have been decently maintained, the biggest question for reliability is typically the engine. And that’s also mostly a question of maintenance, as the engines are generally very reliable–even the 1600.
I’ve driven my Fanalone on 650 - 800-mile weekend events, including as much as 350 miles in a single stretch. Frankly, the biggest issue on long trips is noise. Fanalones were built without any sound deadening–just some thin fiber insulation in the footwells. Even with some added sound deadening, they’re noisy at highway speeds, which can be a little wearing on a 5-hour drive.
The answer to Q2 is that there’s no objective logic to the difference in price between an S2 1600HF and an S1 1.6HF. Not speaking of cars with period competition history, but only considering street cars, Fanalones are more expensive only because of their cult status, not because they perform significantly better than the 1600HF.
There’s no good answer to Q3, except to say you need a lot more than just the chassis plate to confirm that a Fanalone is genuine. Most importantly, the serial number stamped on the cowl must match the chassis plate. But there are a number of other components that should bear the correct 818.540 parts numbers, and a number of other details that will tend to confirm (but never guarantee) that the car is correct.
There’s no better answer to Q1 than the one you already know; it’s all down to the condition of the individual example. Fulvias are very robust, with very simple and very well-engineered components; assuming the body is solid, and that the brakes and suspension components have been decently maintained, the biggest question for reliability is typically the engine. And that’s also mostly a question of maintenance, as the engines are generally very reliable–even the 1600.
I’ve driven my Fanalone on 650 - 800-mile weekend events, including as much as 350 miles in a single stretch. Frankly, the biggest issue on long trips is noise. Fanalones were built without any sound deadening–just some thin fiber insulation in the footwells. Even with some added sound deadening, they’re noisy at highway speeds, which can be a little wearing on a 5-hour drive.
The answer to Q2 is that there’s no objective logic to the difference in price between an S2 1600HF and an S1 1.6HF. Not speaking of cars with period competition history, but only considering street cars, Fanalones are more expensive only because of their cult status, not because they perform significantly better than the 1600HF.
There’s no good answer to Q3, except to say you need a lot more than just the chassis plate to confirm that a Fanalone is genuine. Most importantly, the serial number stamped on the cowl must match the chassis plate. But there are a number of other components that should bear the correct 818.540 parts numbers, and a number of other details that will tend to confirm (but never guarantee) that the car is correct.
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
As Ed says, the Fulvia, any Fulvia, if in orginal condition, is very reliable. My daily driver is a 1967 coupe Rallye 1.3. Before its restoration it had done 250.000 km (100.000 by myself). After restoration I started driving it again on 1st of april 2007. Since then it has done another 250.000 km, summer and winter, without any problem at all. It still is like a new car. No oil consumption, stable, uses 7 liter of 95 unleaded per 100km. I drive it non stop (just filling up) for up to 1250 km per day without getting tired.
Next year we celebrate the 50st birthday of the Fulvia. Any Fulvia you buy is 40 to 50 years old. Nobody can say for sure what its condition under the surface really is.
Next year we celebrate the 50st birthday of the Fulvia. Any Fulvia you buy is 40 to 50 years old. Nobody can say for sure what its condition under the surface really is.
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
My recomendation is to locate a true Fulvia expert somewhere in your part of Europa & pay him (her ? yes there are some) to
a) help you search b) check the vehicle c) drive the vehicle away immediately after buying it; even if that means on a flat bed truck or on a trailer..........
it can be a fatal-surprise to a buyer when the checked/approved/purchased vehicle isn't quite the same vehicle when all documents for transit, export, import & possible temporary registration have been readied & all monies paid:
Murder is not an alternative; after all the buyer has already paid the seller; so murder will not accomplish anything ! Still !!!
Those up front expenses for an advisor may hurt a bit, but it is better to turn down a "disaster" than to get stuck with one; better to know that what is being paid for is worth the price being paid !
I recollect a viva-lancia (& other Lancia Sites) post by Bart NL, describing a purchase in Sicily when he had a local-person to help him - a lot ----- to purchase a S1 Alu Fulvia about 2 years ago - a purchase that did not quite pan-out quite (ha ha) as he expected it would - at the price discussed by phone, nor anywhere near that price, for a car that was not quite the item he was told (by the seller) that it was .....not to forget that he travelled from N NL to Sicily to buy the "like new condition object of his desire"...........mountains, ferry boat, rain storms & major flooding ! Quite an adventure !!
I recollect assistance given to me by Senor G.C. Cellalairo of Heidelberg in purchasing a FSZ & Gamma from same seller in SW DE. Man-o-man did he check out the cars....both at time of contract-signing & again at delivery - some weeks later.
Suffice it to say that at time of delivery ....no 1was hurt, no 1 went to jail; court & lawyers were avoided; price was renegotiated downwaaaards & I saved more than face.....
G.C.'s shop got to do many necessary tasks - after receiving many parts - parts / assemblies that werestolen off of both cars by the seller -after the ontract was signed.
I recollect buying an Italo Sports Car multo anni fa that was checked at a reknowned-dealer in Essen prior to my purchase. The check-result was "wow, it is absolutely perfect & is really worth much more than you are paying...including what you have to pay us". I was very happy..........
I recollect reading Lancia; not only Fulvia - in fact not only Lancia - stories of "trusting-buyers" who weeped after purchase.
Please don't be one of those !
a) help you search b) check the vehicle c) drive the vehicle away immediately after buying it; even if that means on a flat bed truck or on a trailer..........
it can be a fatal-surprise to a buyer when the checked/approved/purchased vehicle isn't quite the same vehicle when all documents for transit, export, import & possible temporary registration have been readied & all monies paid:
Murder is not an alternative; after all the buyer has already paid the seller; so murder will not accomplish anything ! Still !!!
Those up front expenses for an advisor may hurt a bit, but it is better to turn down a "disaster" than to get stuck with one; better to know that what is being paid for is worth the price being paid !
I recollect a viva-lancia (& other Lancia Sites) post by Bart NL, describing a purchase in Sicily when he had a local-person to help him - a lot ----- to purchase a S1 Alu Fulvia about 2 years ago - a purchase that did not quite pan-out quite (ha ha) as he expected it would - at the price discussed by phone, nor anywhere near that price, for a car that was not quite the item he was told (by the seller) that it was .....not to forget that he travelled from N NL to Sicily to buy the "like new condition object of his desire"...........mountains, ferry boat, rain storms & major flooding ! Quite an adventure !!
I recollect assistance given to me by Senor G.C. Cellalairo of Heidelberg in purchasing a FSZ & Gamma from same seller in SW DE. Man-o-man did he check out the cars....both at time of contract-signing & again at delivery - some weeks later.
Suffice it to say that at time of delivery ....no 1was hurt, no 1 went to jail; court & lawyers were avoided; price was renegotiated downwaaaards & I saved more than face.....
G.C.'s shop got to do many necessary tasks - after receiving many parts - parts / assemblies that werestolen off of both cars by the seller -after the ontract was signed.
I recollect buying an Italo Sports Car multo anni fa that was checked at a reknowned-dealer in Essen prior to my purchase. The check-result was "wow, it is absolutely perfect & is really worth much more than you are paying...including what you have to pay us". I was very happy..........
I recollect reading Lancia; not only Fulvia - in fact not only Lancia - stories of "trusting-buyers" who weeped after purchase.
Please don't be one of those !
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
Ha ha Johnny (48, ak47)
That was a memorable trip indeed. Old Gamma pulling her witts out, doing the distance Genova-St Leon Rot at an average speed of 98km/h with a Fulvia on a trailer and the car itself loaded to the roof with a extra set of wheels and cases of wine, in torrential rain while sometimes dragging her bottom through the water on the flooded autostrada.
The restauration of the Fulvia takes a bit longer than hoped for, mainly because of other projects including rebuilding the roof of my house. But I really try to have her finished before May next year!
And it wasn't such a bad deal after all. Apart from two holes in the bottom, the result of the car lying on the floor for more than a decade, there is no rust whatsoever. And basically the car is complete, apart from the engine, lower front triangles and oil temp gauge. After a whole day of bargaining, indeed with local assistance, I paid E1900,- which I still think is not a bad deal for a 1600 HF Lusso.
The car is being painted now, after very thourough corrosion prevention and will be built up over the coming winter. Next job on the list: electrics. The entire electrical system is still in a cardboard banana box...
Bart
That was a memorable trip indeed. Old Gamma pulling her witts out, doing the distance Genova-St Leon Rot at an average speed of 98km/h with a Fulvia on a trailer and the car itself loaded to the roof with a extra set of wheels and cases of wine, in torrential rain while sometimes dragging her bottom through the water on the flooded autostrada.
The restauration of the Fulvia takes a bit longer than hoped for, mainly because of other projects including rebuilding the roof of my house. But I really try to have her finished before May next year!
And it wasn't such a bad deal after all. Apart from two holes in the bottom, the result of the car lying on the floor for more than a decade, there is no rust whatsoever. And basically the car is complete, apart from the engine, lower front triangles and oil temp gauge. After a whole day of bargaining, indeed with local assistance, I paid E1900,- which I still think is not a bad deal for a 1600 HF Lusso.
The car is being painted now, after very thourough corrosion prevention and will be built up over the coming winter. Next job on the list: electrics. The entire electrical system is still in a cardboard banana box...
Bart
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
Bart the Sailor Man
yes, wasn't it amazing that I was also driving/floating in the same flood in Genoa at the same time; listening to radio reports of country roads, highways, houses & hill-sides beinbg washed away; me without a loaded trailer .... me driving a lot slower than you did; not trusting myself to drive faster.....
The result of my trip to Genoa from my home in Brescia was me asking myself - "why did I come here ? to waste time & money?" I answered "but U finally got to see Genoa with Genoan Guides, to eat & drink with them; to swap stories about people we knew etc etc .... so stop complaining & concentrate on staying on the Strada"
Glad that your trip panned-out well; looking forward to updates on your project (s)
J the Gamfulisti
yes, wasn't it amazing that I was also driving/floating in the same flood in Genoa at the same time; listening to radio reports of country roads, highways, houses & hill-sides beinbg washed away; me without a loaded trailer .... me driving a lot slower than you did; not trusting myself to drive faster.....
The result of my trip to Genoa from my home in Brescia was me asking myself - "why did I come here ? to waste time & money?" I answered "but U finally got to see Genoa with Genoan Guides, to eat & drink with them; to swap stories about people we knew etc etc .... so stop complaining & concentrate on staying on the Strada"
Glad that your trip panned-out well; looking forward to updates on your project (s)
J the Gamfulisti
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
Well John, I drove a Gamma. Can highly recommend it, you should know the experience...
Few cars can match the Gamma Berlina for long distance touring, even high speed/fully loaded.
Bart
Few cars can match the Gamma Berlina for long distance touring, even high speed/fully loaded.
Bart
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
Cheers guys for the help.
I am adamant in purchasing in proper Fulvia, not some copy. There's no real reason for buying a Fulvia copy, other than trashing it at rally events. My biggest decision is whether it is worth looking for a proper Fanalone series 3 or whether I should just settle for any 1600hf model. What helps you guys decide that a certain car is the right one?
Regards,
mmic0033
I am adamant in purchasing in proper Fulvia, not some copy. There's no real reason for buying a Fulvia copy, other than trashing it at rally events. My biggest decision is whether it is worth looking for a proper Fanalone series 3 or whether I should just settle for any 1600hf model. What helps you guys decide that a certain car is the right one?
Regards,
mmic0033
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
A series 3 Fanalone does not exist. Fanalone is Italian for "big head lights". It refers to the 7" main beam units on the first series 1.6HF. All other coupe's have 5 3/4" head lights for the main beams as well as for the low beams.
The series 1 1600 is officially called 1.6HF and nick named Fanalone.
The series 2 1600 is officially called 1600HF. Sometimes nick named Fanalino.
A series 3 1600 does not exist.
If you wish I can bring you into contact with a Fulvia owner on Malta.
The series 1 1600 is officially called 1.6HF and nick named Fanalone.
The series 2 1600 is officially called 1600HF. Sometimes nick named Fanalino.
A series 3 1600 does not exist.
If you wish I can bring you into contact with a Fulvia owner on Malta.
Re: Purchasing a Fulvia
As Huib says, there are only two types of 1600 Coupés: S1 "1,6HF" and S2 "1600HF". There is little performance difference between the two, but because of its iconic status the S1 will be about twice as expensive as the S2.
I would suggest you try to find a copy of Weernink's The Lancia Fulvia and Flavia : A collector's guide. You can also check out teh following web sites:
http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/fulvia/fulviae.html
http://www.fulviahf.it/pagina%20intro%20gb.htm
Because, wIth all due respect, if you're serious about this, you need to do some serious homework.
I would suggest you try to find a copy of Weernink's The Lancia Fulvia and Flavia : A collector's guide. You can also check out teh following web sites:
http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/fulvia/fulviae.html
http://www.fulviahf.it/pagina%20intro%20gb.htm
Because, wIth all due respect, if you're serious about this, you need to do some serious homework.