Just a question

[tim]

Brilliant question Huib!

My first "Lancia" was a (beta) monte carlo. I thought it drove rather well and definately an a-1 ie too many times the road dissapeared!!! (Crash). After a few of these experiences and some financial difficulties I traded down to a 1.3Rally Fulvia. And found I had traded up!!! This was a brilliant car and taught me to look for similar characteristics in any car I subsequently owned.

Only 2 cars since then have matched this delectable quality of being joined to the road. They were an (opel/Vauxhall) GSi 3000 and a 2wd Porsche 993.

Five years ago I reaquainted myself with Fulvia through acquiring and exact same spec 1.3 (colour/trim everything) to the one I had written off. I loved its handling but something was missing. After a fast run I saw the front tyres had split between the treads (the car must have been on its original Michelin x's having only covered 18,000 from new when I bought it). Not being able to get x's in the correct size I opted for XAS's. This was the best performance mod ever and Fulviantics returned to the top table.

I have subsequently acquired an 11year old 1.6 MX5 (mazda) convertable sports car. This is in the mould of Lancia with very precise controls and loads of feel - dare I say it more than a fulvia?!

What makes driving so enjoyable in such cars is the minute extra acceleration the human body detects as the chassis converts driver input more accurately to car position. The old adage is true - its not speed but acceleration we animals crave!

happy driving

Tim

PS I have added 1.6Zag which has the same precision and delicacy, and a 1.6HF which is much more brutish but hugely enjoyable.

[tim]

PS I should have mentioned my MX5 (77,000 miles) has no ABS, power steering, or aircon to detract from its purity. Power is 114bhp at 6500. Tyre size is 185/60 on 14 inch and weight is 995kgs all very similar to fulvia.....

[Gamma as in Goat]

Tim, I agree; not a bad car to start off with - a Beta MC. & I agree a Fulvia it ain't !

If I understood correctly, you now own 3 Fulvia ? 1x 1.3 Coupe, 1x 1.6 Coupe, 1x 1.6 Z.

In which country do you live? UK I assume.
We (readers of this forum) need the address of where the cars are parked & dates of when you'll next be out-of-town. Also, details of which flower pot you will hide the keys under !
There are enough criminals (besides me) ( I'm sure) in this forum to do a clean-job of it !
No one will ever suspect us ! & you get to keep the insurance $.

MX5 = Lotus Elan gotten right. OK - Lotus is the real thing, but which of the 2 can be driven daily ?
MX5 is another car I've never driven....so leave the keys for that car too: We all can test-drive it for you
& then return it to its garage ! Speaking of which; where do you park so many cars ?

I drove a Fiat X1/9 1x , in the early 90's . It was a thrill, although only a few -in-town-miles.
The handling was "so much fun". The owner told me that that was the only fun aspect of owning it !!
He was (is) a very small man. He fit in it well; in fact he had to move the seat 2 feet forward (slight exaggeration) to hit the pedals.
I didn't fit it well - so I can easily make that comparison to a Z or MC.

I never drove the X1/9 again, except across the street to the paint shop - after we spent a fortune of "his-money" replacing all panels, welding old-olive-oil-cans over the huge-craters in the floor & over the non-existent rocker panels, lower door halves etc etc,
He had it less than 2 years - from new - & it was falling apart.
Yet another car that should have never been sold in any country where it rains !
I think he went in hiding for some years after selling it.

As everybody knows, the Beta MC was to be either
a) a X1/9 replacement or b) a big X1/9 brother, in any case a Fiat
Somehow - it became a Lancia, It was too expensive to sell as a Fiat & 2 expensive (new) to be a
sales success, even as an "upmarket-brand" Lancia - anywhere !.
In the USA it was also very smog-standard underpowered. The X1/9 as well. With USA Bumpers & other dafety features they were also much heavier. & the had A/C. Goodbye performance !

The very few MC I ever saw in N. Euro were also quickly rusted through, as were the very few Fulvia's.
I was/am so happy neither my MC (ex-Sardenia) or Z (ex-Museum) were N. Euro cars.

As everybody knows, the Mazda MX5 was a huge success; probably still is - everywhere !
& they didn't rust quite as quickly.

I know nothing about the Lotus Elan, other than seeing 'em fly around slaloms corners at incredible speeds. I don't know what other real-street-car of " the 60s generation they could be compared to an
Elan in handling. I guess they were also very expensive. Pay a lot, get a little ! Like a Z !!!

I know that a Louts Elan never won the Monte Carlo Rallye !

You say:"its not speed but acceleration we animals crave! Yes, yes, yes; in most circumstances (ha ha) !
Might I add: going around the bend, without even thinking about slowing down is a drug !!.

By the way, older mid-engine cars are infamous for biting their loving owners, very nastily.

I just read a test about the Audi R8 ; it said - "without all the electronic safety systems, this car
Can Not Be Kept On The Road !!!!!!!!!!!
I am sure no one ever wrote that about a Fulvia !!!!!!!!! Yipeeeee for us !!!

40 years after the Fulvia a new SUPER CAR "can not be kept on the road" ?????????? What !!!!
.


tim wrote:
>
> Brilliant question Huib!
>
> My first "Lancia" was a (beta) monte carlo. I thought it
> drove rather well and definately an a-1 ie too many times the
> road dissapeared!!! (Crash). After a few of these experiences
> and some financial difficulties I traded down to a 1.3Rally
> Fulvia. And found I had traded up!!! This was a brilliant car
> and taught me to look for similar characteristics in any car
> I subsequently owned.
>
> Only 2 cars since then have matched this delectable quality
> of being joined to the road. They were an (opel/Vauxhall) GSi
> 3000 and a 2wd Porsche 993.
>
> Five years ago I reaquainted myself with Fulvia through
> acquiring and exact same spec 1.3 (colour/trim everything) to
> the one I had written off. I loved its handling but something
> was missing. After a fast run I saw the front tyres had split
> between the treads (the car must have been on its original
> Michelin x's having only covered 18,000 from new when I
> bought it). Not being able to get x's in the correct size I
> opted for XAS's. This was the best performance mod ever and
> Fulviantics returned to the top table.
>
> I have subsequently acquired an 11year old 1.6 MX5 (mazda)
> convertable sports car. This is in the mould of Lancia with
> very precise controls and loads of feel - dare I say it more
> than a fulvia?!
>
> What makes driving so enjoyable in such cars is the minute
> extra acceleration the human body detects as the chassis
> converts driver input more accurately to car position. The
> old adage is true - its not speed but acceleration we animals
> crave!
>
> happy driving
>
> Tim
>
> PS I have added 1.6Zag which has the same precision and
> delicacy, and a 1.6HF which is much more brutish but hugely
> enjoyable.

[tim]

Johnny why do you use the gamma as in goat handle?

Try a MX5 but fitting in may still be an issue. You may find MX5 puts such a smile on your face you will have to change to gamma as in grin!!! You may just want to buy one - a worse mistake could be made.....

MX5's dont really rust mine is 12 years old 77k miles and has no rust to speak of. If you try one make sure it is as out of showroom - not one of the many that have been wreaked by "handling" kits or other "performance mods".

Tim

[Stephan]

GM says they will have a driverless car within a decade (they also said that about the electric car, about 11 years ago, but thats another story)
The steering feel in most modern cars reminds me of the old naval movies, the captain yells "hard a port" someone turns the wheel and the turn happens in the next time zone.
The common thread for us Lancisti is that we enjoy the driving experience! While big horsepower can be fun ( Im not opposed to tire burning power slides ) there is something very satisfiying about driving a moderate powered car well. ( you 1.6 HF owners excepted ).
With modern road and traffic constraints we can still enjoy and get the most from our small displacment motors while playing survivor man dodging SUVs. Recently I was "blasting" down the road in my Fiat 850 when I came across the local "revenue collector" instinctively I let off the gas, of course that was unnecessary as I was well within the legal limit. Its not the speed that counts but the experience, shifting at redline, the sound of the Abarth exhaust....etc.. Even a good modern car can't be enjoyed like this on public roads and thats why I will always have my Fulvia.

[Johnny48]

I use the moniker "Gamma as in Goat" because it was "cool-motor-pool lingo" back when the US Army had many-wheeled ATV designated "Gamma Goat". (see google reference).
I never, back then, heard any1 refer to a "Gamma Goat" as a "Gamma Goat".
Cool folks said "Gamma as in Goat".
Like "Duffel as in Bag" or "Olive as in Drab"
& numerous other -senseless but humorous- military-terms.

I didn't work in a Motor Pool then (or ever) & never even came within the vicinity of a Gamma Goat.

The fact is, that in my XYZ years of US Army service, I hardly ever worked at all.
Ispent 75% of my time in "Schools", of some sort or another.
Some of these "Schools" were not actually "in-classroom" Schools... they were "Boy-Scout-Camps !"

Eating snakes, berrys & mud while while at the Fort Benning, Ga. 'Ranger-School', following the Fort Benning, Ga. "Airborne Training" & before Fort Bragg, N.C. Special-Forces-Training wasn't much
"in -classroom" schooling, but it was ( I am sure) 'valuable training', non-the-less.
I, not having an "Incredible-Hulk" physique, certainly had my "work" cut out for me, getting my scrawny-butt thru these Scout-Camps !

If you were ever in the 'Military' yourself - in any Country - you will probably be familiar with the term:
"Alright Everybody, listen up ! Today's "block of instruction" will save your life in combat some day" !!!!

How learning the myriad steps involved in disassembling, cleaning & reassembling a collapsible-shovel would saves 1's life someday was never explained...but the "initial-impact" was good & always got a laff !

I discovered -early-on- that there was always a "next-level of training" to "reach for" & the Training-Schools were always looking for & always found enough Fools to fill the Classrooms.
Even when the Classrooms were actually deep in Mississippi Swamp Land.
Rattlesnakes, Skitters (misquitos) & Gators, but no Girls !!

With "travel-time" + "30 days annual leave" added, I almost "never did anything" that could be described as "work", while being paid by 'Uncla Sam'.

I often wondered why I was getting paid at all. Or, why I was even doing what I was doing.

I semi-followed the learned words of Dr. Timothy Leary ! "Turn off, tune out & don't think".
A very Buddistic Attitude toward Serenity. But don't step on a Gator !

Of importance of Military-Schooling was - more 'Graduation-Certificates' = more "Promotions".
More promotions = higher paychecks .
And, of course, more promotions lead to the requirement to attend the "next level of training" .
Don't think, just GO! As Soon As Possible.

I'm not ashamed to say that much of this time was spent in a "training-situation" where Military-Training was no where-in-sight & no military-uniform was worn.
Now, that was worth the time invested !
How else could I learn "the History of Poetry" or understand "the Origins of Classical-Music".

I joke not about the last line. +, this was "Schoolíng" that was attended by Girls !!!!! Need I say more ?

When I actually "had to work" I often filled a 'Position' in the School I had just attended.. thus, even when I was 'working' - I was still "in School".

This "work-time" was usually necessary to "bridge the downtime" until the next "level of training" would begin. My My My, where do all those tax $ go ??

Then 1 day a "reduction in force" came along. I, & thousand of other -"trained "Professional -Students" were then actually paid $ to leave 'Active-Duty'& embark into a "limbo-status" in the (semi) Active-Army Reserve...so we could be called-up again, for the next War.

My extended-period of "Reserve-Status" was to last for over 10 years (!!!!).

I attended evening / weekend classes, under the auspices of the (so called) "GI Bill".
I, & thousands of others, actually got paid - good solid $ - to (again) go to School.

These 10 years were, of course, not in spent in swamps.
No war came. I never returned to Government -Employment !
I went to (real) work, was a full time had a good life !

The real "Gamma Goat" (assuming that there is actually a "sub-Breed of Goat" designated "Gamma Goat"), can climb steep-hills "like nothing-else".
I do assume that Gamma Goats live in Mountainous Regions". I also assume that the military Gamma-Goats was to also perform well in Mountainous-Regions.

I think I maybe remebber heaing that Gamma Goat ATV's were not very reliable & weren't in the Military - Inventory for long.

Maybe the Army would have been better off putting Gamma-Goats in "olive as in drab" uniforms.

Gamma Goats may have been more reliable & certainly a lot cheaper to maintain.
+, they would have reproduced themselves with little tax-payer-investment.

Hmmm, they probably are more reliable than Lancia Gamma's. too Ha Ha Ha !!

Please realize, when reading this blog, it is written by a "Mom & Apple Pie American" in (a sort of) American English.
Some terms that are "every day cool language" in the USA (at least they were when I last lived there),
such as "like nothing-else" may not translate well into non-American-English.

Back to Lancia:
When I first thought about owning / driving a Lancia Gamma, the 1st "related to nothing" thought that popped into my head was - "Gamma as in Goat".

Now you know the story behind this rather strange Moniker.

It is the name I use in the Lancia Gamma Forum.

If I need a new 1, it will be "Gamma-Ray". Ha Ha Ha !!!


Tim wrote:
Johnny ,why do you use the 'gamma as in goat' handle?

[Gamma as in Goat]

all that schoolin & I still can't even write a complete sentence.

I correct:
"I went to (real) work, was a full time had a good life !
to read
I went to (real) work, was a full-time-student, had a good life !

I add : got little sleep !

[tim]

Brill johnny - hope you dont have a goat as in Gamma. I have always wanted the coupe but it is a large car and while I can I prefer the smaller variety for driving.

You ought to write a book btw , maybe on goats, us military life or lancias..............

Happy driving

Tim

PS if you do still have a scrawny frame you would fit into an MX5 (Miata in US).

Tim

[Katsura Tsukamoto]

When I drive my Fulvia Sport, I feel actually both "a" and "b".

The reason for choosing "a" can be same as other comments. On the other hand, sometimes I feel "b". For instance when I drive empty smooth road, and everything works perfectly including the motor, the suspension, and so on, I can not believe Fulvia was made more than 35 years ago. It makes me so comfortable and calm, runs smooth and stable. Yeah, I feel the road moves under me.

Do I misunderstand?

Of course, driving in winding road, I feel completely "a". :)Huib Geurink wrote:

[Huib Geurink]

The feeling can be regulated by lengthening or shortening your bones in particular the spine. Can you experiment a bit and let me know?