No use trying to find the fault with the British press or whatever.
The root of the problem was and has been the attitude of Fiat.
Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
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Brian Hilton
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
I worked in motor manufacturing for over 20 years & the photos of all the Thesis stacked up seems more like ex engineering test hacks/duration driving vehicles than vehicles scrapped for faults; if they were faulty then they would have been cut up for scrap pretty quickly, rather than left about for someone to take photos of them.
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Philip
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
in the mean time I've read that these are old dealer fleet cars in Germany which for some rason or other are being broken up for spares and being sold in lots...sad in any case.
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Philip
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
in the mean time I've read that these are old dealer fleet cars in Germany which for some reason or other are being broken up for spares and being sold in lots...sad in any case.
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Angle Grinder
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
I'm joining this debate a bit late, but picking up on rust scandals...
I recently was shopping for a car for the missus and we were looking at VW Polos in the 7-10 yr old bracket. I always thought these cars were meant to be the most solid of compacts, but next time your out have a look at a P reg Polo up close. Man those cars can rust big time!!!
One in particular that we looked at had rust on the inside lip of the top of each door. Not small amounts in seams, but whole areas of about 5cm by 3cm that looked as if paint had gone on top of pre-rusted metal.
I recently was shopping for a car for the missus and we were looking at VW Polos in the 7-10 yr old bracket. I always thought these cars were meant to be the most solid of compacts, but next time your out have a look at a P reg Polo up close. Man those cars can rust big time!!!
One in particular that we looked at had rust on the inside lip of the top of each door. Not small amounts in seams, but whole areas of about 5cm by 3cm that looked as if paint had gone on top of pre-rusted metal.
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Paul de Raymond Leclercq
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
Vörsprüng dürch corrosion eh?
Well when Lancia (in)famously had rust problems with the Beta, unlike, as far as I know any other manufacturer, they owned up.
It is tragic that Lancia's very correct behaviour was not rewarded - in England at least.
Paul
Well when Lancia (in)famously had rust problems with the Beta, unlike, as far as I know any other manufacturer, they owned up.
It is tragic that Lancia's very correct behaviour was not rewarded - in England at least.
Paul
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Philip
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
how true...and the British and German press love to always remind people of rust problems (not mentioning that it was 30 years ago and now simply history) which helps the kindling alight...in the mean time, in my opinion, the Italians are of the best if not the best in rust protection (I even saw an older Audi A4 whose boot lid is rusitng badly at the bottom sill - similarly aged Unos look better). Reliability is alo tops for the newer models - at least the Lybra, and from what I hear the Idea and Panda too - to the point that dealers were complaining that they are earning too little (or not) on non existent repairs....
I feel that there is a deep down complex about the potential prowess of Italians, so any opportunity to make them subjectively sound inferior to a German or even French car is not missed. It's very subtle but very obvious to an Italian car adherant. Are we too shy to spread the word that the things have changed? I for one don't miss any opportunity to extoll my Lancia's virtues.
ciao from Geneva to all, have a good weekend!
Philip
I feel that there is a deep down complex about the potential prowess of Italians, so any opportunity to make them subjectively sound inferior to a German or even French car is not missed. It's very subtle but very obvious to an Italian car adherant. Are we too shy to spread the word that the things have changed? I for one don't miss any opportunity to extoll my Lancia's virtues.
ciao from Geneva to all, have a good weekend!
Philip
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Randy Adams
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
I'm very glad to hear that the newer cars are performing so well.
I am reminded of my experiences with my Fulvias here in the U.S.. The cars were unbreakable but nobody outside of the Lancia fraternity believed me when I would tell them that. And, of course, Lancia had nearly no distribution here during the Fulvia's production years.
In addition to the problem of bad steel in the 1970s, the reputation of the Italians here in the U.S. was badly damaged by the industrial sabotage of the late 60s and 70s. A lot of Italian cars were willfully ruined by the factory workers. Nobody really ever explained this to the U.S. market and I'm not sure if it would help anyway.
I do think there is some bigotry against the Italians here, for whatever reason. People do not seem to grasp that the effusive Italians can also be passionately serious about their work.
Whereas the Germans seem to always get a pass for their mistakes. Around 1970 or so, Audi released the 100LS which proved to be one of the most comprehensively bad cars ever sold in the U.S.. The 5000 model with automatic allegedly had a habit of slipping from "park" into "drive" without warning. And yet all is forgiven now; Audis sell in huge numbers for very high prices. The BMW 320i from the mid-70s disappeared from American roads pretty quickly due to maintenance issues, but BMW somehow managed to keep its image as a quality automaker.
I am reminded of my experiences with my Fulvias here in the U.S.. The cars were unbreakable but nobody outside of the Lancia fraternity believed me when I would tell them that. And, of course, Lancia had nearly no distribution here during the Fulvia's production years.
In addition to the problem of bad steel in the 1970s, the reputation of the Italians here in the U.S. was badly damaged by the industrial sabotage of the late 60s and 70s. A lot of Italian cars were willfully ruined by the factory workers. Nobody really ever explained this to the U.S. market and I'm not sure if it would help anyway.
I do think there is some bigotry against the Italians here, for whatever reason. People do not seem to grasp that the effusive Italians can also be passionately serious about their work.
Whereas the Germans seem to always get a pass for their mistakes. Around 1970 or so, Audi released the 100LS which proved to be one of the most comprehensively bad cars ever sold in the U.S.. The 5000 model with automatic allegedly had a habit of slipping from "park" into "drive" without warning. And yet all is forgiven now; Audis sell in huge numbers for very high prices. The BMW 320i from the mid-70s disappeared from American roads pretty quickly due to maintenance issues, but BMW somehow managed to keep its image as a quality automaker.
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mark tobin
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
Fiat's Lancia targets record like-for-like sales this year
"MILAN (AFX) - Fiat SpA brand Lancia is aiming for record sales this year, excluding the impact from the discontinued Lybra model, said Lancia brand chief Olivier Francois.
Yesterday, the transport ministry said first-quarter Lancia new car registrations fell 1.2 pct to 30,756. A Fiat official said the Lybra accounted for 10 pct of first-quarter 2005 sales.
'We are aiming for a record in sales in the full year, net of the Lybra, which is not produced any more. We ought to do better on the models we are producing now,' Francois said.
Sales of Lancia's main-selling Ypsilon and Musa models were both higher than a year earlier, he said.
The top of the range Thesis model should report similar sales to those in 2005, he said.
Lancia is aiming for an Italian market share of 4-5 pct this year, against the first quarter's 4.39 pct, he said.
Lancia's main models, including the low volume Phaedra large monospace car, are all out-selling comparable Fiat brand models in their specific market segments in Italy, he said.
In Belgium, France and Spain, Lancia is setting up its own dedicated sales teams, independent from Fiat brand teams, he added.
'Now the strategy is very clear, to have our own resources and organisation. In May, we will have reorganised in France and Belgium,' he said.
Asked about yesterday's report on a convertible Lancia model, Fiat officials said Lancia plans to launch a 'speciality' model this year or next.
'We have indicated there will be a speciality model. There are various options. The rest is speculation,' said one official.
Yesterday, Automotive News reported that Fiat is considering a project with Italian contract carmaker Bertone to produce 20,000 units a year of a new convertible Lancia model. "
"MILAN (AFX) - Fiat SpA brand Lancia is aiming for record sales this year, excluding the impact from the discontinued Lybra model, said Lancia brand chief Olivier Francois.
Yesterday, the transport ministry said first-quarter Lancia new car registrations fell 1.2 pct to 30,756. A Fiat official said the Lybra accounted for 10 pct of first-quarter 2005 sales.
'We are aiming for a record in sales in the full year, net of the Lybra, which is not produced any more. We ought to do better on the models we are producing now,' Francois said.
Sales of Lancia's main-selling Ypsilon and Musa models were both higher than a year earlier, he said.
The top of the range Thesis model should report similar sales to those in 2005, he said.
Lancia is aiming for an Italian market share of 4-5 pct this year, against the first quarter's 4.39 pct, he said.
Lancia's main models, including the low volume Phaedra large monospace car, are all out-selling comparable Fiat brand models in their specific market segments in Italy, he said.
In Belgium, France and Spain, Lancia is setting up its own dedicated sales teams, independent from Fiat brand teams, he added.
'Now the strategy is very clear, to have our own resources and organisation. In May, we will have reorganised in France and Belgium,' he said.
Asked about yesterday's report on a convertible Lancia model, Fiat officials said Lancia plans to launch a 'speciality' model this year or next.
'We have indicated there will be a speciality model. There are various options. The rest is speculation,' said one official.
Yesterday, Automotive News reported that Fiat is considering a project with Italian contract carmaker Bertone to produce 20,000 units a year of a new convertible Lancia model. "
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Koen
Re: Lancia's European registrations for Jan 06
Lancia brand-chief Olivier Francois said :
> In Belgium, France and Spain, Lancia is setting up its own
> dedicated sales teams, independent from Fiat brand teams, he
> added.
> 'Now the strategy is very clear, to have our own resources
> and organisation. In May, we will have reorganised in France
> and Belgium,' he said.
They have 1and1/2 month to do so....
Wait and see....
Koen (Belgium)
> In Belgium, France and Spain, Lancia is setting up its own
> dedicated sales teams, independent from Fiat brand teams, he
> added.
> 'Now the strategy is very clear, to have our own resources
> and organisation. In May, we will have reorganised in France
> and Belgium,' he said.
They have 1and1/2 month to do so....
Wait and see....
Koen (Belgium)