thanks b20, now I am enlightened:).
On my way home from another day in paradise (driving a big french mini car) the rhd vs lhd #'s popped into my head, but I never would have guessed 1675 of 2600.
how many have survived ?
Zagato for Sale
Re: a question (s)
No one knows.
I would be surprised if anyone would even take a guess.
You seem obsessed with the car right now.
I thought you were about to sell it, and then get on with your Gamma life.
Or is all this just some kind of "promotion"?
I would be surprised if anyone would even take a guess.
You seem obsessed with the car right now.
I thought you were about to sell it, and then get on with your Gamma life.
Or is all this just some kind of "promotion"?
Henrik
1970 Flavia Coupe
1970 Flavia Coupe
Re: a question (s)
racing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to split the 818.332/333: 1,578 (Fulvia
> Sport 1.3) in two separate
> blocks.
> I would like to say very important depent on the
> Alu and steel versions.
>
> The first 709 if i remember well ( more ore less
> ) are build with Alubody. After
> that they have the steel body.
>
> Regards Andreas
[EDITED]
911 all-alloy Sports were made in total: all 202 of the 818.132/133, and the first 709 of the 818.332/333. After chassis 818.332/333.001911, Sport bodies are steel.
Note: There's nothing wrong with the math. For most chassis types, the numbers start with 001001, but the Sport 1.3 is one of the exceptions. 818/332/333 chassis are numbered consecutively with 818.132/133, so the first 818.332/333 chassis number is 001203.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to split the 818.332/333: 1,578 (Fulvia
> Sport 1.3) in two separate
> blocks.
> I would like to say very important depent on the
> Alu and steel versions.
>
> The first 709 if i remember well ( more ore less
> ) are build with Alubody. After
> that they have the steel body.
>
> Regards Andreas
[EDITED]
911 all-alloy Sports were made in total: all 202 of the 818.132/133, and the first 709 of the 818.332/333. After chassis 818.332/333.001911, Sport bodies are steel.
Note: There's nothing wrong with the math. For most chassis types, the numbers start with 001001, but the Sport 1.3 is one of the exceptions. 818/332/333 chassis are numbered consecutively with 818.132/133, so the first 818.332/333 chassis number is 001203.
Re: a question (s)
Are you sure. I will be happy if it is like this because i have one of 475 cars.
But if you follow the competizion book from carlo stella or the collector guide Flavia & Fulvia
it is different.
May be you can say from where you have the nr. 818.332/333.001475 to make it more clear.
Regards Andreas
The first cars 1,2 and 1,3 means 818.132/133 and 818.332/333 are one block by counting the chasis nr.
818.132 starts with 1001 up to 1202
818.332 starts with 1203 up to clarify
But if you follow the competizion book from carlo stella or the collector guide Flavia & Fulvia
it is different.
May be you can say from where you have the nr. 818.332/333.001475 to make it more clear.
Regards Andreas
The first cars 1,2 and 1,3 means 818.132/133 and 818.332/333 are one block by counting the chasis nr.
818.132 starts with 1001 up to 1202
818.332 starts with 1203 up to clarify
Re: a question (s)
Andreas,
I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where chassis 001475 came from, and I can also see that it's an error. The numbers you quoted (709 all-alloy Sport 1.3) is quite correct.
It's never been clear to me why Zagato numbered the Sport [1.2] and the Sport 1.3 sequentially, without interruption. Or why the all-alloy body was changed to steel nearly halfway through the Sport 1.3 production. But I've always split the production by chassis type numbers (818.132/133 vs. 818.332/333) rather than by body material (alloy vs. steel)
I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where chassis 001475 came from, and I can also see that it's an error. The numbers you quoted (709 all-alloy Sport 1.3) is quite correct.
It's never been clear to me why Zagato numbered the Sport [1.2] and the Sport 1.3 sequentially, without interruption. Or why the all-alloy body was changed to steel nearly halfway through the Sport 1.3 production. But I've always split the production by chassis type numbers (818.132/133 vs. 818.332/333) rather than by body material (alloy vs. steel)
Re: a question (s)
Ed Levin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andreas,
>
> I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where
> chassis 001475 came from, and I can also see that
> it's an error. The numbers you quoted (709
> all-alloy Sport 1.3) is quite correct.
>
Ed - help please. Can you reconcile the 475 alloy cars with the "709" as quite correct above? A humble Lancista, just back from Italian visit, is confused here.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andreas,
>
> I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where
> chassis 001475 came from, and I can also see that
> it's an error. The numbers you quoted (709
> all-alloy Sport 1.3) is quite correct.
>
Ed - help please. Can you reconcile the 475 alloy cars with the "709" as quite correct above? A humble Lancista, just back from Italian visit, is confused here.
Geoff Goldberg
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
Re: a question (s)
If you will trust Carlo Stella and / or Wim Oude Wernink they build
202 cars with 1,2 engine in Alu and
709 cars with 1,3 engine in Alu
After that they used the steelbody to reduce cost in the production for sure.
If you see what they have done to adapt the aluskin it´s quit clear why.
regards Andreas
202 cars with 1,2 engine in Alu and
709 cars with 1,3 engine in Alu
After that they used the steelbody to reduce cost in the production for sure.
If you see what they have done to adapt the aluskin it´s quit clear why.
regards Andreas
-
fulvia a.i.
- Posts: 214
- Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 16:38
Re: no question
mini-reply
I bought a Z w/out any Fulvia knowledge; based on usual parameters:
1) I knew my budget & why; I was not planning to invest additional big-monies afterwards (exit - long term 'projects')
2) I knew I wanted "va va voom"; at least visually (exit - Berlina of any Brand)
3) it had to be: Italian (exit Glas GT by Frua), streetable (exit- race car / loud car) & not bought only for "trade-fair exhibit-purposes" (exit - hi-tune 500 / 600 Abarth, Gianni etc) i.e....
it had to be a car that could be driven (theoretically) on a daily-basis...from a to b & also as a rolling-promotion vehicle & certainly a barrel of fun
4) it had to be in a category "old enough to be interesting (exit - Lancia Mc & Beta Cpe) / new enough that parts / service wouldn't be a nightmare (exit - cute lil' Appia or older) nor be big nor expensive (exit - Aprilia)
4) it had to not be: a "run-of-mill" looking common every-mans car (exit Innocenti Mini, 124 Spider), a bland-look taxi-like car (exit Lada)[;)/i] & a not tiny-tiny / flimsy-flimsy tin-mobile (exit - a # of interesting 'fun-cars' incl. Bertone 850 Spider; Vignale 850 Beach Car etc
6) it had to be "relatively compact";( exit - Flaminia, Flavia, Alfa 1900 atc...)
7) & not so rarely exotic that owning it would become a nightmare (exit a # of uninteresting possibles)
The Car being sought, by a Team of Informed Seekers, was determined to best be:
Fulvia Cpe
or
50's or early 60's Alfa Spyder
or
50's or early 60's Fiat Spider
Top condition Alpha were too expensive by 2004 & almost un-insurable ...but so gorgeouso.... aaaahhhh
A decision was (almost) made on a Fiat O.S.C.A. - exactly what was required. Wheels were to be set in motion by 'Seekers' who had located 1 very-right-Fiat in right colors; a hardtop, with a great history, known to them, as was the aging fanatical-owner.
They couldn't get Senor Owner to budge on price...but kept trying; the asking.price wasn't too-high, but I was told by the 'Senior-Seeker' (of same age as owner; an 'old-car-drivers & member of the same Old-Car Car-Clubs) that there was [i]still some room to maneuver. So, wheels were not yet rolling north (I would have trailered it anyway) .
Thus, the list was boiled-down to:
find a Fiat Soft Top, even if only a go-slow 1200
or
find an any-age Lancia Fulvia Cpe, regardless of motor-size/power
No one not never thinking "oh, maybe we can find a Zagato".
I think that I remember that I had forgotten that there even was a Ful Zagato ever built.
Strange, actually, since as an ex-Beta Cpe & Mc driver; I had a fleeting knowledge of earlier Lancia & I knew of Fulvia Rallye success .... I even remember remembering that I had seen a Ful. Zagato - in the mid 70's - 1x in my life; at an Ital Restaurant in Heidelberg; parked next to Ful Coupe..in winter ...icey -time of year ...both white & me wondering "why are they both red-rusting through white paint; why doesn't the owner do something, quickly ?"
Off-Track for 1 min: there were 2 lovely & priced-right Lancia inspected, they just didn't quite really fit the bill ....no matter how hard we tried to bend the bill.... I still miss not buying 'both-of-them'; as do certain female persons in my family ... who are not thrilled with a rock-hard tiny-loud Fulvia Z, but then I'd have even more parking-problems; where would I put 2 new Lancia 2000 Berlina ?
8) there was (for various reasons) a very tight "time-deadline" (an 'only-before-date') to be met; registration included. Buying a car outside of my country of residence & rushing through all procedures to qualify for registration, even if only a 1 day (phony) eye-wash registration in another country, isn't done (honestly & legally) o'er night. .
While looking at a yellow-tiny-car far to my south that didn't 'strike-my-fancy'... it was also possible to look at another car a few km away; in fact I had an appointment ... to see a car that was also found by a Seeker...
thus my Z was soon to be & is still is in my little hands. That Seeker met the deadline for registration; no one asked "how" !
Back to an earlier day in 2010:
As I began to set little-wheels in-motion to market my Z, I knew it was high-time for me to know what I haven't known up until now ... in order to be able to tell any potential buyer what it actually is, as accurately as possible ... and also for my own 'peace of whatever'..........
and so I am reviewing Fulvia Z in-general herein (or so it has developed) & reviewing mine in-specific here, for there are a # of Viva-Lancia English Fulvia readers who have requested detailed info about my Z.
This forum is the best avenue to reply ... to all inquirers at 1x & not sending a PM to each individually.
& to reply to anyone else who just might care; for whatever reasons, even if they didn't inquire
Yes, those who are 'still interested' can certainly PM (or email) me.
90 days ago I knew a lot less than I now know...which is 1 of the great things about this forum.
Also, in setting-off down the dusty sales-trail, I want to be honest & not report to anyone that my Z is something that it isn't.
It is, for schua:
A multi-winner at Daytona, Targa & Sebring (not to forget Mon. Carl), driven by Me. Moss, Fangio & friends, built & tested by E. Zagato himself, the rare lite-wait alu, built specificially for Aga Kahn, parked in Onassis garage ha ha; I've read vehicle-descriptions similar to the above...too many times:)
I bought a Z w/out any Fulvia knowledge; based on usual parameters:
1) I knew my budget & why; I was not planning to invest additional big-monies afterwards (exit - long term 'projects')
2) I knew I wanted "va va voom"; at least visually (exit - Berlina of any Brand)
3) it had to be: Italian (exit Glas GT by Frua), streetable (exit- race car / loud car) & not bought only for "trade-fair exhibit-purposes" (exit - hi-tune 500 / 600 Abarth, Gianni etc) i.e....
it had to be a car that could be driven (theoretically) on a daily-basis...from a to b & also as a rolling-promotion vehicle & certainly a barrel of fun
4) it had to be in a category "old enough to be interesting (exit - Lancia Mc & Beta Cpe) / new enough that parts / service wouldn't be a nightmare (exit - cute lil' Appia or older) nor be big nor expensive (exit - Aprilia)
4) it had to not be: a "run-of-mill" looking common every-mans car (exit Innocenti Mini, 124 Spider), a bland-look taxi-like car (exit Lada)[;)/i] & a not tiny-tiny / flimsy-flimsy tin-mobile (exit - a # of interesting 'fun-cars' incl. Bertone 850 Spider; Vignale 850 Beach Car etc
6) it had to be "relatively compact";( exit - Flaminia, Flavia, Alfa 1900 atc...)
7) & not so rarely exotic that owning it would become a nightmare (exit a # of uninteresting possibles)
The Car being sought, by a Team of Informed Seekers, was determined to best be:
Fulvia Cpe
or
50's or early 60's Alfa Spyder
or
50's or early 60's Fiat Spider
Top condition Alpha were too expensive by 2004 & almost un-insurable ...but so gorgeouso.... aaaahhhh
A decision was (almost) made on a Fiat O.S.C.A. - exactly what was required. Wheels were to be set in motion by 'Seekers' who had located 1 very-right-Fiat in right colors; a hardtop, with a great history, known to them, as was the aging fanatical-owner.
They couldn't get Senor Owner to budge on price...but kept trying; the asking.price wasn't too-high, but I was told by the 'Senior-Seeker' (of same age as owner; an 'old-car-drivers & member of the same Old-Car Car-Clubs) that there was [i]still some room to maneuver. So, wheels were not yet rolling north (I would have trailered it anyway) .
Thus, the list was boiled-down to:
find a Fiat Soft Top, even if only a go-slow 1200
or
find an any-age Lancia Fulvia Cpe, regardless of motor-size/power
No one not never thinking "oh, maybe we can find a Zagato".
I think that I remember that I had forgotten that there even was a Ful Zagato ever built.
Strange, actually, since as an ex-Beta Cpe & Mc driver; I had a fleeting knowledge of earlier Lancia & I knew of Fulvia Rallye success .... I even remember remembering that I had seen a Ful. Zagato - in the mid 70's - 1x in my life; at an Ital Restaurant in Heidelberg; parked next to Ful Coupe..in winter ...icey -time of year ...both white & me wondering "why are they both red-rusting through white paint; why doesn't the owner do something, quickly ?"
Off-Track for 1 min: there were 2 lovely & priced-right Lancia inspected, they just didn't quite really fit the bill ....no matter how hard we tried to bend the bill.... I still miss not buying 'both-of-them'; as do certain female persons in my family ... who are not thrilled with a rock-hard tiny-loud Fulvia Z, but then I'd have even more parking-problems; where would I put 2 new Lancia 2000 Berlina ?
8) there was (for various reasons) a very tight "time-deadline" (an 'only-before-date') to be met; registration included. Buying a car outside of my country of residence & rushing through all procedures to qualify for registration, even if only a 1 day (phony) eye-wash registration in another country, isn't done (honestly & legally) o'er night. .
While looking at a yellow-tiny-car far to my south that didn't 'strike-my-fancy'... it was also possible to look at another car a few km away; in fact I had an appointment ... to see a car that was also found by a Seeker...
thus my Z was soon to be & is still is in my little hands. That Seeker met the deadline for registration; no one asked "how" !
Back to an earlier day in 2010:
As I began to set little-wheels in-motion to market my Z, I knew it was high-time for me to know what I haven't known up until now ... in order to be able to tell any potential buyer what it actually is, as accurately as possible ... and also for my own 'peace of whatever'..........
and so I am reviewing Fulvia Z in-general herein (or so it has developed) & reviewing mine in-specific here, for there are a # of Viva-Lancia English Fulvia readers who have requested detailed info about my Z.
This forum is the best avenue to reply ... to all inquirers at 1x & not sending a PM to each individually.
& to reply to anyone else who just might care; for whatever reasons, even if they didn't inquire
Yes, those who are 'still interested' can certainly PM (or email) me.
90 days ago I knew a lot less than I now know...which is 1 of the great things about this forum.
Also, in setting-off down the dusty sales-trail, I want to be honest & not report to anyone that my Z is something that it isn't.
It is, for schua:
A multi-winner at Daytona, Targa & Sebring (not to forget Mon. Carl), driven by Me. Moss, Fangio & friends, built & tested by E. Zagato himself, the rare lite-wait alu, built specificially for Aga Kahn, parked in Onassis garage ha ha; I've read vehicle-descriptions similar to the above...too many times:)
-
fulvia a.i.
- Posts: 214
- Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 16:38
Re: a question (s)
Ed Levin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where chassis 001475 came from
and I can also see that it's an error.
John asks: Ed, not that I am losing sleep; but please explain what you mean in the above sentence.
What is the error ? The chassis # is incorrect ?
-------------------------------------------------------
I checked my numbers, and I know exactly where chassis 001475 came from
and I can also see that it's an error.
John asks: Ed, not that I am losing sleep; but please explain what you mean in the above sentence.
What is the error ? The chassis # is incorrect ?
-
fulvia a.i.
- Posts: 214
- Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 16:38
Re: a question (s)
Andy,
at LCD Meet in Hills nord of Heilbronn 3 yrs ago there was a French-Lancisti in attendance who had such a vast / deep knowledge of post WWII Lancia of 50;60,70's that he must have been the Lancia Historian or an Alfa Spy...
He had such a wonderful manner of relating episodes & incidents & happenings that was a pleasure to listen too him; in clear English, perfect German & (I assume) correct French Sacre Blu !!
I don't remember his name, so I will call him Pierre.
I think I think I remember Pierre arriving in a red Fulvia Z S1.
In any case, Pierre had us laughing when he described production-procedures[/i ... ha ha], component & parts ordering schemes at Z and a few incidents relating to certain male persons whose names began with Z
"not being available" at certain times each month...meaning that perhaps the next batch of cars would be all steel, because the alu supplier wasn't going to continue supplying ... until he was paid for the last deliveries......
Production-Procedures the next day:
"look, we have some alu left doors here in this corner, maybe we better run-up some steel right doors or these 1/2 finished cars will have to sit outside in the sun (rain) until we have more alu doors. Maybe when we get alu we again can run-up some right doors & drive to our Ital dealers with mix&match doors (hoods etc) & swap everything...or...if the cars have been exported, correct everything when the car is brought to the selling dealership for (ahem) "rust-removal".
He continued with stories about the early days of post-war Pininfarina production & why many so many panels, doors, hoods, trunks wouldn't fit the car they were intended for,,,but by evening the car was painted.
I asked him "how much of what you just told us is true & how much is rumour" ?
I think I remember remembering him replying (something akin to) "Oh Oh Oh, you have only heard the good news so far...if you have a week I'll tell you the rest"
We were standing next to Willie Kaufmann's Flavia Z (which I love) ... Willie took up the reins & told us stories about the Flavia Z & about a certain Flavia Z hew knows quite well ...which was funny too; even though he was describing his own Z; which he bought new...aaahhh... "quite a few moons ago". (It Still Looks New)
Great Meeting, great Lancia stories.
at LCD Meet in Hills nord of Heilbronn 3 yrs ago there was a French-Lancisti in attendance who had such a vast / deep knowledge of post WWII Lancia of 50;60,70's that he must have been the Lancia Historian or an Alfa Spy...
He had such a wonderful manner of relating episodes & incidents & happenings that was a pleasure to listen too him; in clear English, perfect German & (I assume) correct French Sacre Blu !!
I don't remember his name, so I will call him Pierre.
I think I think I remember Pierre arriving in a red Fulvia Z S1.
In any case, Pierre had us laughing when he described production-procedures[/i ... ha ha], component & parts ordering schemes at Z and a few incidents relating to certain male persons whose names began with Z
"not being available" at certain times each month...meaning that perhaps the next batch of cars would be all steel, because the alu supplier wasn't going to continue supplying ... until he was paid for the last deliveries......
Production-Procedures the next day:
"look, we have some alu left doors here in this corner, maybe we better run-up some steel right doors or these 1/2 finished cars will have to sit outside in the sun (rain) until we have more alu doors. Maybe when we get alu we again can run-up some right doors & drive to our Ital dealers with mix&match doors (hoods etc) & swap everything...or...if the cars have been exported, correct everything when the car is brought to the selling dealership for (ahem) "rust-removal".
He continued with stories about the early days of post-war Pininfarina production & why many so many panels, doors, hoods, trunks wouldn't fit the car they were intended for,,,but by evening the car was painted.
I asked him "how much of what you just told us is true & how much is rumour" ?
I think I remember remembering him replying (something akin to) "Oh Oh Oh, you have only heard the good news so far...if you have a week I'll tell you the rest"
We were standing next to Willie Kaufmann's Flavia Z (which I love) ... Willie took up the reins & told us stories about the Flavia Z & about a certain Flavia Z hew knows quite well ...which was funny too; even though he was describing his own Z; which he bought new...aaahhh... "quite a few moons ago". (It Still Looks New)
Great Meeting, great Lancia stories.