Last Lancias sold in USA?

[Cavin]

Hello to Lancia owners!

Anyone knows, what were the last models of Lancia sold in United States?
I wonder if Thema, Delta, Dedra or Prisma were ever sold in USA?

[ALAN COOPER]

as far as I know beta zagato (aka spider in europe) was the last but I'm sure someone from the US will clarify further

[Randy Adams]

The last Lancias sold here were Beta Zagatos, just as Alan Cooper says. I believe they were last sold in 1983 but were actually 1982 models that had been languishing on the docks. It was a sad end as the Beta model had finally been pretty well sorted by then with the Bosch injection system, the superior rust protection and an uprated alternator.

The earlier carbureted Beta models demolished the model's reputation here. They were severely lacking in power and their pollution control systems were seriously unreliable and of poor quality. The early brown dashboard (which I actually like the looks of) was prone to early cracking in the summer heat, the electric windows were pathetically slow and the steel used for the bodywork seemed to just magically disintegrate into rust even in places like California. There was also the infamous Italian industrial sabotage problem of the 1970s. A good friend of mine purchased a brand new 1976 coupe equipped with sand in the sump free of charge! Because of all these problems, encouraging initial sales for what was a pretty expensive car dwindled down to a slight trickle.

My 1981 car is the only example of the coupe model (which I prefer both aesthetically and because of the lower weight) that I ever see navigating the roadways of Los Angeles. Zagatos will still occasionally be seen.

So we never got any of the other cars that I think would have done well in the U.S., some of which really needed a U.S. market to generate sufficient sales to justify their tooling. No Gamma coupe. No Beta VX. No Delta Integrale. No Thema turbo. No Kappa coupe. No Thesis. I have blasted the Fiat management on many occasions on this board and this is why.

[ryan]

hey randy, you are in los angeles? yes, i've rarely seen Beta coupes as well,
quite a few Zagatos though. i wouldn't mind finding a nice Bete coupe myself.

its breaking my heart to see Canada get to import 1990 Delta Integrales now..
there was one just sold on eBay.

[Randy Adams]

Yes, I am in Los Angeles. I don't really know of decent coupe available right now. You don't by any chance want a 1984 Maserati Biturbo with a crappy paint job, do you?

[ryan]

Interesting, you have a Maserati Biturbo also? Any photos of it?
I've heard these cars are a bit notorious on the engine side though.
I'm considering to save up to get a ~2002 Coupe' in a couple years
though

Its sad that Lancias are now so few are far between.

[Randy Adams]

Yeah, my offer to sell the Maserati says it all. The cars are a bizarre mixture of brilliance and utter, jaw dropping incompetence. But mostly they are a testament to the development limitations faced by a small independed automaker in the modern era. There are just too many things that have to be sorted in order to satisfy various regulatory schemes to permit the small company to do the full job of sorting the basics to the car.

I wouldn't really knock the engine; it's pretty tough especially if you respect a few basic rules like allowing the oil to warm thoroughly before you do any aggressive driving. The carbureted version's boost management system, however, is pretty erratic in terms of its function. It's controlled by vacuum. I've never had a vacuum anything work reliably. The electrical system is easily the worst I've ever encountered. Fuse boxes are guaranteed to last only a few years no matter how many clever patches you introduce into the system. Bodywork and hardware are well below the standard you are entitled to expect in a car of its original price (adjusted for inflation). The rain gutters are designed so as to trap water at their rearmost extremity, ensuring rust in every single example I have ever seen. The stainless steel trim is comparatively soft; don't go at it with even "0000" steel wool unless you like scratches. The body steel is also comparatively soft. The differential (Salisbury on the 84 model) has a tendency to dislodge its front seal due to a sloppy fit with the inadequately supported splined end of the driveshaft after which it quickly runs out of oil and fails; it can lose the seal and then die of no oil within a very small number of miles. The ZF gearbox seems to be pretty robust but it is not a pleasure to use; the gearing is totally unsuitable for city driving and the gear change is balky. The brakes are everything I could ever ask for, the best I've yet encountered. The steering (manual on my car) is depressingly short on feel and offers a turning radius only adequate to orbit the moon. The rear suspension is easy to catch out; I'm told it's a copy of BMW's 5 series rear suspension from the 70s. That last fact affords me great amusement since it's so obviously inferior to the front suspension which is apparently a Maserati design and quite good if rather intolerant of maladjustment or wear.

For a six cylinder 1980s car, the Biturbo is astonishingly light and yet has very effective noise suppression inside the cabin. This makes it potentially a truly magnificent gran turismo. But it's just so badly executed.

I would consider one of the new generation Maseratis, but only a model deep into the production life after the bugs have been resolved. Lancia could develop a car perfectly well before the Fiat takeover, but Maserati could not and I'm sure that the new cars are better in every way because of this.

[ryan]

Were the bugs finally worked out in the last Biturbos that were sold in the US?
The '87 Biturbo Si or '89-'90 228?

Yeah, I think at the time they really did not have the resources to refine the
cars to what they should of been and it comes out clearly in your very detailed
description of your '84 Biturbo. Anyway, those Biturbos sure do look nice when
I see them roaring around at speed.

The new Coupe'/Spider and Quattroporte must be pretty good cars now though,
right? I've heard of a few bugs here and there, but overall they seem very nice
and just look fantastic going around Los Angeles. For a Coupe' I'd like one that
has the 6-speed manual though, I need to have a proper clutch.

You got anymore goodies around here beside your Beta and Biturbo?
I really need to have an Italian car again.

ps. I may have tracked down a candidate '76 Beta Coupe.

[Randy Adams]

My first Beta was a lovely chocolate brown coupe, 1976 vintage. Be aware that these early models must pass the smog tests in CA and it's not that easy to achieve. And the smog-modified 1800 engine is decidedly anemic. This is also one of the early cars more prone to rust than the later cars. I'm not telling you this to put you off it, just to help you decide whether you want to go with it. The injection 2000s are unquestionably better developed. On the other side of the equation, if it were legal to bolt a pair of Webers onto the 1800, I'd always prefer it over the 2000 because it is a much smoother and revvier engine.

I'm told that the injection equipped Biturbos are better but I have no first hand experience with them. I too wonder whether I'd be happy with that paddle shift contraption on the new cars.

My other cars are various models in the 1950s/60s Flaminia range. They are obviously Sunday drivers and, because I have too many and too many interests, they are in various states of driveability. I keep three of them on the road but none could be expected to make it under its own power all the way up to this summer's Concorso Italiano, each for its own individual reasons.

[ryan]

With regards to '76 Betas, I see. The more prone to rust is not good to hear.
Basically this '76 Beta is one that is up at C. Obert for sale:

http://www.fiatplus.com/car27.htm

SMOG is a concern as well. I was hoping that a new exhaust/calalyst would
help out.

Anyway, I'm really set on getting my hands on a Lancia again. I'm just not even
sure what we are "allowed" to own in California. Betas are getting tough to
SMOG, what about these Fulvia coupes you can see for sale every once and
awhile?