Fanalone "Piggy-back" Gearbox

[VAR1016]

Here's a strange one.

My client was never happy with the original 'box in her Fanalone and I agreed, I didn't think much of it either and much preferred the SII one in my own "special".

Anyway, from someone here in France, she bought a Fanalone engine and gearbox, allegedly with just 80,000km. About three years ago I cleaned up this 'box and had a quick look at bits of it and it seemed to be good.

I was not amused, having mounted it into the subframe to find as I offered up the engine, that the 'box has a SII bellhousing (yes I know I should have noticed before but after all I don't sadly have Fulvias to work on all the time!)

My question is this: I have been told that late Fanalones were actually fitted with the later-type five-speed gearboxes - that is non piggy-back.

Can anyone confirm this and/or confirm that perhaps some "S one-and -half" 1600s had piggy-back 'boxes fitted. I know that a number of them had the Fanalone thin driveshafts and various other SI-type parts. Of course if piggy-backs were fitted to S 1 1/2s then this would explain the SII type bellhousing.

Paul

[ncundy]

Later Fanalones did indeed have the S2 gearbox. The change over point was somewhere around chassis 1000, so about the last 250 odd had this 'box (according to the TAV). What's the difference in the bell housing?

[VAR1016]

Hello.

the difference is the location of the starter motor; I haven't actually made certain but it seems that the motor would be larger - as in S2. The two bolt holes are no longer in circular line as they are on the SI bell housing.

[ncundy]

That may not be an S1/S2 difference; on Fanalone #610 Lancia did some changes in this area. They changed the flywheel from the original Fanalone 104 tooth 6kg flywheel to the 126 tooth 9kg flywheel as fitted to all Fulvias from then on in, this also caused the starter motor to be changed from the Bosch unit to the Ducellier unit fitted to all Fulvias from then on in, and they also changed the bell housing.


It's not clear from the TAV's why the bell housing was changed (or what changed on it) but it may be to cater for the Ducellier starter motor. If the gearbox has a number somewhere the other side of 610 then this might explain it??

[lancialulu]

Neil

Are you saying the bosch and ducillier starter motors arnt interchangeable? I am sure I have swopped over, but cant quite remember. I know I have reconditioned working spares of each incase of a failure.

Tim

[ncundy]

I've never tried but one is used with a 126 tooth flywheel, and the other with a 104 tooth flywheel so I would imagine the pinion is different if nothing else. The pinion throw may be different as well (longer on the S2 I imagine as the starter ring is further away from the starter motor) but that is adjustable on the solenoid (well it is on the Bosch anyway).

.

[VAR1016]

Brilliant Neil - I think you have it. As I recall, the gearbox is numbered 790 whilst the original is something like 560

I have said before to my old Fulvia friend Justin, that one never stops learning about Fulvias. However I don't understand your point about Ducellier starter motors. As far as I know they were not fitted until the late S2 period; I have never seen one fitted as original equipment on any 1600, and once when desperate I tried one it really wasn't very good, although at least it is a little lighter than the S2 Bosch type.

As an aside I have an Integrale starter motor on my Fulvia; as usual the installation is a bit of a lash-up, but it spins over the engine beautifully and weighs 3 1/2 pounds (say 1.6kg) less than the Bosch original!

Paul

[VAR1016]

Barry always used to say that the Ducelliers were no good as they damaged the ring gear, though I have to say I find this hard to believe.

Paul

[ncundy]

I'm just going from what's in the TAV for the S1 and S2. My brothers S2 1600 has a Ducellier on, all my spares are Ducellier which suggests all the cars and bits I've bought over the years were all Ducellier. That said it wouldn't surprise me if reality was different to theory - and you've seen a few more than I have -D

[Ed Levin]

Well, I'm late to this party. Not surprisingly, Neil's brilliantly covered all the ground.

I'd only add that the S2 used either Ducellier or Bosch starter motors interchangably--both are listed (without qualification) in the S2 catalogo. And any later gearbox will fit a Fanalone, as demonstrated by my own, to which some twit fitted a berlina (818.612) 'box. I have both a Bosch and a Ducellier starter; they both fit, but I have the Bosch mounted at the moment.