tyres/rims - any thoughts?

[ZanettiZA]

I like the way you think gamma! of course I was quoting a direct currency conversion which is never really accurate but yes the Michelins are quite a bit more expensive - the question is are they really worth it?

[lancialulu]

Re tyres

Go for Michelin whatever, preferably spending on orginal fit as per Huib's advice.

You buy a fulvia for it engineering, design, individuality, but most of all for the driving pleasure it gives. Start fiddling on cost basis with the standard package and you run a serious risk of not getting max pleasure when behind the wheel.

See my first post. My 1600 HF was shod with excellent Pirellis but 185/65. I thought the steering was heavy due to the HF having a close ratio steering box (2:1). However, I reasoned that I should try 175. I wont bore you with why this ended up as 70% instead of 82% (ar original) but the car is transformed - my wife took it round Goodwood at high speed for c 40 miles last weekend and loved it!

Equally I had a heavy steering experience with my 1.3 S2 which had original michelins on it (165/82 x's) - the car had only done 18000 miles. Anyway I had thought the steering and handling was a bit off but being short of money didnt do anything to resolve, until after a very fast run of c 300km I looked at the tyres and could see splits down the "canvas". So time for a change! The tyre were obviously rock hard.

Although money was still tight I reasoned that Michelins were the way to go and I acquired a set of 165/80 XAS's for £400. This was the smartest upgrade my car has ever had. Steering pin sharp and light, handling wonderful and neutral.

Indeed after light use over 6 years from these new tyres they still provide max pleasure - having just got the car out for an outing tomorrow/weekend.

BTW taking up Ed's challenge of motor power v tyre width, going round goodwood in and HF didnt need a wide tyre to lose speed in slow corners. my narrow ones (175) didnt lose grip with the loud pedal pressed to the floor. A Fulvia 1600 racer also told me 195and above were trading to much corner speed for grip due to the drag from the tyres. Even a well tuned 1300 is 20-40 bhp down, so I doubt it makes any sense to go above 165.

Tim

[gamma a.i.]

I have continued reading some feedback tire profiles fro everyday drivers...where the Mich was slightly critized in the wet; if one drives like an idiot...but praised for fuel savings Fuel savings compared to what other tire ? I do not know ! Perhaps to the standard Mich tires ? & preasied for "perhaps less wear / longer life"; both of which would perhaps equal out the price difference...if the buyer drove alot of miles per year.
Perhaps, if I had a Renault Alpine, I'd insist on Michelin; perhaps, if I had a Fulvia I look for Pirelli, (if available in right size) or perhaps I'd vote to "just chuck the whole process" & go for Firestones at a fairer price:)

[lancialulu]

John

Get your Z out and take it for a drive. Then slap some 165/80 michelins on and take it for the same drive.

I'll wager (after you have paid for the experience!) that

a) you will sling the fat tyres in the skip

and

b) you wont sell your Z but a G?!!

Happy motoring/snappsing

Tim

[gamma a.i.]

showing my historical ignorance of Fulvia S2, standard Coupe or Z...
I will assume steel wheels were standard & any other factory-delivered wheels were optional.

I am not counting after-market wheels, perhaps added at a dealership 'pre-sale' or added later in life.

We already know that 165 on 4.5inch wheels were standard width for S2; thus I assume that 165 was considered "possible" best alternative".
My original 1972 S2 car title shows both 165 or 185 as meeting original specs; therefore both sizes are legal. There is no mention of any other size.
In my small brochure-collection there is no mention nor photo of "optional light alloy-wheels".; however I have no brochure for a S2 of any body style. I will check Lancia 100Book to see what it says / shows::o

I know if my Delta Milano wheels with 2 cute little red running baby elephants*[ on the center caps/i] are not 4.5 wide; (u]certainly they must be wider[/u] than steel wheels; although I have never had steel wheels to compare with Milanos.

I also feel there must have been a 'sales-argument' besides looks for ordering/paying for alloy-wheels ! Many of these arguments are mentioned...in opposing opinions sometimes... in this current / ongoing conversation ...such as better braking, higher corner speeds, worse mileage & accelaration...although I doubt if the later 2 arguments were taught in Fulvia Sales Training Seminars

Shall I simply assume that alloy-wheels require wider tires ? & that I should make no size-mod when it comes time for new tires? According to my títle book; 175 are not a legal alternative, because they are not listed as being such.

Should I assume that the baby elephant wheels c o s t a l o t m o r e in 1972, because they are so C U T E

I hope so !

[gamma a.i.]

ooops, Delta Milano on a Alpha!

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965 ... heels.html

[gamma a.i.]

been doing a little late nite reading Fulvia Light Alloys (no mention of which wheel) - 5.5" / Compagnalo 6-".

[Ed Levin]

I don't want to get too sidetracked, but:

-- It's not for cooling; running in a straight line between corners will give you all teh tire cooling you ever need.
-- Wear is a primarily a function of rubber compound; if you wanted to influence wear with teh size, you'd increase the radius, and therefore the distance per rotation, not the width.
-- Your description of cornering weight shift doesn't apply to wide, low-profile racing tires, and anyway lateral load resistance is more a function of sidewall proportion and stiffness, not width.
-- Wider tires do increase the effectiver track, but with wider tires, camber is adjusted to try to maintain constant loading (as verified by constant terperature) acorss the width of the tire. If all your load is going to the outer edge of the tire, a wider tire would be no better than a narrow tire with a wider track.

It's got little if anything to do with those reasons; racers run wider tires for increased contact patch and therefore increased sq cm over which to distribute the weight of the car. The less the gravity load of a tire per sq cm, the greater the lateral force that tire will be able to resist, You're correct that the contact patch can be varied to a certain extent by the tire pressure, but generally only within fairly narrow parameters.

I do indeed understand that the center of the contact patch does not coincide with the kingpin axis, and factors like castor angle also affect steering effort. But for teh same suspension geometry, wider tires will require more steering effort by virtue of the greater yaw rotational resistance across the wider contact patch.

But we certainly agree that the factory specs were carefully worked out, and should be altered only with very careful consideration. And wider is not always better--sometimes it's much worse. That said, Lancia engineers didn't even have the option of wider, low-profile tires when they designed the Fulvia suspension.

[Ed Levin]

Like Tim, I run XAS on my HF. Being an S1, the original size is 175/80-13, which is unobtainable. Given teh choice between 165/80-13 and 185/80-13, I opted for the 185, and the response is still pin-sharp. So I'd agree with Tim that the XAS is simply the best of all possible options, except that they're far more expensive. But assuming you don't do too many track days, they'll give years of service, which means the cost is spread over a lot of driving (and, as Tim points out, a lot of driving pleasure).

But in most of my posts, I've been careful to use the phrase "fior street use". Racing is a different proposition altogether. And even though wider tires are generally better for racing, with a light car wide tires can be loaded so lightly that they never get up to their optimum operating tread temperatures. And in that case, you're better off with a narrower tire that is operating at its optimum temps. Tim's recent experience at Goodwood doesn't surprise me in that regard.

[ZanettiZA]

I've come across some Pirelli P4's at an excellent price and all the user reviews have been excellent and would they buy them again? :Definitely!

Possibly if I could get the XAS tyres I would then consider it but 165x80x14 is an impossible size over here, the best I can get is 175x70x14 and I think the Pirelli's should be a good option...