Rear end hop

[Rick]

I've been meaning to ask about this phenomenon. My S2 has a rear end hop which I probably made worse by removing the spare tire. I suspect this is something one grows to live with due to the innate lightness of the aft end and the leaf spring design but I would be interested in viewpoints on what to check for and optimum air pressures and shock settings/types to minimize it. I haven't inspected the shocks for brand but suspect they are stock type and maybe the originals. I haven't even had the time to put the car in the air since I purchased it this past fall. The tires are Michelin Energy 175/70x14 on Campanolo wheels and I run about 30psi. Also I spied a ratchet setting on the axle at the mid-point just now for the first time. Has this got something too do with it? Do the manuals address this setting? Thanks in advance. Rick

[Lancia-hf]

Hi Rick,
the ratched you discovered is probably the rear brake limiting device. just a lever controled hydraulic tap. releasing flow to the rear brakes the more the rear of the car is loaded. If your rear end is very stiff several thing might be wrong:

rear leafsprings rusted and therefor harsh. Remedy: dismantle, clean, sand, greasy lightly and reassemble
rear shocks rusty and or missing its gas or oil charge (depending on the type) .remedy: replace.
Saloon leafsprings fitted (is the ride hight normal?) remedy: install coupe leafsprings
Tire pressure to high. Should be max 2 bars (28 psi)

Hope this helps,
William

[Rick]

William, thanks for your guidance. This sounds well thought out and makes a lot of sense. When I acquired the car this fall, sight unseen and untested, it was freshly restored but I doubt anything was done to the suspension. This was the first Lancia I had ever so much as sat in and remains my only Fulvia experience. It would prove embassassing to have someone familiar with the cars tell me 5 years from now that the rear end needs attention and I missed the opprtunity to resolve it.. After seeing my post had 40 views, I was afraid I had stumped the gallery. I also have a '72 Giulia Super 1.3 that is as much a kick to drive. The coil springs over that live axle has totally different result. Ironically they are both 90HP and run on similar tire sizes. I can't wait to do a test comparison on a closed course with them. Both cars are equally entertaining and I would be happpy to share my experience with anyone considering to own one or the other.

Moreover, your comment on the ratchet mechanism is right on. Thanks. I assume there are no hidden dangers in dismantling the springs unlike the fron transverse one. Am I correct? I have all the manuals that are sold by Huib in CD form. Thank you very much again.Rick

[Ed Levin]

With all due respect, I don't think the 30psi pressure in the tires is any part of the problem,

To William's sound advice about the springs, I'd also check the shocks. When I bought my 1.6HF, the rear jumped around a great deal, due to the Koni shocks that had been fitted to it. Even on the softest setting, they weren't nearly compliant enough. A change to a full set of De Carbon type shocks completely transformed the handling (and really improved the ride). And neither the rear stability nor the ride is appreciably degraded by the 32psi tire pressure I typically run.

[Rick]

Thanks Ed. It sounds like the shocks are an easy fix. I shopped around and found KYB gas shocks at Discount Auto Shocks on line for like $100 for all 4 which is dirt compared to having to import some anything else. Interestingly, they have oodles of leaf springs to choose from for "1972 Lancias". Sounds like this will take some sorting. . I haven't rung them up yet but maybe someone can pass on their thoughts on this idea and recommend one of their offerrings and the viability of the KYB brand. The reviews on KYB's on other cars were very positive and they sounded indestructable.

The spring redo sounds a little daunting without the right tools which I don't have after reviewing the manual. Ed, you've been down this path recently. Any "tools" you can recommend of a homemade design you could recommend. How is the operation on your car doing and can you share the results? Rick

[Ralph deMasi]

Rick,

If you can swing them I would go with the shocks Huib sells on this website. They are good performing shocks for street applications. Removing the leaf springs from the car and disassembling them is not a big deal. I used large c-clamps to keep them under control as I undid the bolts which hold them together. The biggest headache are the straps at each end. Sand and paint the leaves and use greased plastic interleaving between the leaves once you reassemble. If you can't find a supplier PM me and I'll get you the name of the company where I got mine. They're on the East Coast.

The other thing I did which transformed the handling was setting the ride height. Basically you will loosen the bolts at the ends of the leaf springs as well as the transverse stabilizer bar (I forget the proper name), load the rear of the car until you reach a specified distance between the bump stop and the metal bracket on the leaf spring and then tighten everything back up. The specifics are in the Huib disks. Let me know if you can't find the specific page. Its a considerable weight that's needed so I put a garbage can in the trunk and filled it with water but still needed additional weight to get the back into position.

[Huib]

Did you put axle stands under the front member of the subframe?

If you leave the car on its front wheels the engine is counterweight and the weight in the trunk is less effective.
Taking it off its front wheels by putting axle stands under the front member of the subframe transforms the engine from counterweight into weight and increases the effect of the weight of the body and the weight in the trunk.

[Rick]

Ralph and Huib, thanks for your comments. I'm not stingy when it comes to repairs but given the choice of saving $425 I will probably go with the KYB's. For the difference in price if I don't like them I can always dismiss them and call it a cheap lesson learned unless I come up wioth a definitive NO, don't use them. Rick

[Ralph deMasi]

Rick,

No, I can't give you a definitive no.

Huib

Good point, I left the front tires on the ground so it was quite funny the amount of weight I had to put in that trunk. Luckily I have all sorts of spare parts so into the trunk they went: starters, flywheels, generators. I stopped short of putting the spare crank in. LOL

[Rick]

Put new DeCarbon shocks on from Huib.. Excellent. Car had the original deCarbons in rear and Boge two piece hydraulic shocks in front with 126,000 KM on them. I rebuilt the sway bar in the rear while I was back there. More a PITA than I thought but the next owner won't have to do it. Car seems more compliant.

Beware of the bolts in the rear holding the upper shock brackets in place. They are set in caged square nuts that tend to SPIN when any attempt is made to loosen 'em and you will need to spread these brackets to fit the newer bushing between so you will loosen them..