Chrysler 'Delta'

[Koen]

If the name Lancia is applied to rubbish such as the Musa (or, less heinously, the Ypsilon)

Ever seen a Musa with Poltrona Frau ?

then it would be better for the long term memory of the name to retire it from further use.

And then we can all buy a VW or Audi ?


Koen (who drives a rubbish car, called Y. Based on Punto 1)

[Philip]

ever compared the Fiat Idea with the Musa? since when do leather seats make a car? The fact that most people buy the Lancia Musa rather than the Idea are the leather seats and the added caché of the Lancia badge I guess...how sad.

The Beta was totally different than any Fiat of the time, apaprt form basic engines...but the Lancia was FWD and the Fiats RWD; the Beta had transve engine mounting, the Fiats lengthweise...

The AC/Shelby example is rather pointless...

I think the Delta is a great car; just not the right car for me as I need a station wagon and Lancia (or the entire Fiat group) no longer produces anything suitable or desirable...

[Randy Adams]

I did not mean to suggest that the Beta was a badge-engineered Fiat. That was part of my point. It used a power train then unique for Fiat Auto, with a unique suspension design and a Piero Castagnero-designed body. I meant to say that the Beta represented an upmarket and more technically sophisticated alternative to the contemporary Fiat coming from the same family and utilizing bits from the same family's pool of bits. That's how Lexus, Infiniti and Acura have been developed as well. Slapping the discredited Chrysler nameplate on a Lancia model is not remotely the same. And, sadly, I cannot imagine that car being introduced into this country without first bowdlerizing its technical specification thoroughly. Call me cynical. I call me a person who's lived in the U.S. for 53 years.

[Ed Levin]

If you've 'only' got 53 years in the US, I've actually got a few years on you. So I've also seen cars thoroughly dumbed down for the American market. And if that turns out to be Fiat Group's strategy for the Lancia-Chrysler alliance, I'll be whining and moaning with the rest of you.

But I'll say it again, and then I'm pretty much done with this thread: we're discussing the car that showed up in Detroit--at least I thought we were. And the car that showed up in Detroit wasn't bowdlerized, bastardized, or otherwise compromised for the US market. Except to change the grille and badges (dumb as that is), it was an unadulterated Lancia Delta.

And what's the reaction of the lancisti? Bring it here as soon as possible? It's great, but please keep it badged as a Lancia? I'll buy one? No. Forget it--it'll just get bastardized. They should just kill the marque. The world is ending.

[Philip]

did you see Marchione's presentation on Lancias future for Europe? in 2011 we get a D segment Chrysler sedan and convertible, plus a crossover plus a minivan...we Lancisti in Europe hope that they will not simply be Chryslers badged Lancia...what can be re-engineered and restyled within a year to produce a silk purse out of a sow's ear? The jury is out and we will find out in due course...and on top of this he has made references to the possibility of 'killing' the brand in most markets in deference to the 'better known Chrysler' brand...I wonder for what Chrysler is better known...

[Bart Verbeek]

I prefer a Chrysler Delta
over a
Lancia Neon - Lancia Stratus - ...

But if I may choose;
bring me the Fulvietta!
The 500 is saving Fiat, the Giullietta will pump up Alfa sales, so can we please have our (allready 8yr old) Fulvietta?
Or, are we going to be the bastard sister who will die a silent death???

Bart

[Philip]

Hey Bart!
my dad used to have a Fulvia sedan like in the photo...where was this one taken? and does it have an open top?

p.s. thank goodness the Neon is dead...

[gamma a.i.]

well, taking (almost any) not previously sold in the USA car to the USA will require many expensive / major mods; to meet oh so many safety & pollution standards that are not standards in Europe...so be prepared for 'some changes'
not that the basic visual design has to change much.

NOTE:
We like very much our comfy Y automatic; it does all it is supposed to do & still looks "spiffy" (or so we think)-
Last year we were told by a Italo Abarth Fiat 500 driver "that model Y, not y10, is now considered a "cult-car" in Italy; too bad they didn't continue to build it along side the new one...they were still selling well at the time !
No one who has one now wants to sell it.

NEWS:
I've just returned from another "drive around north Italy trip", great this time & a lot warmer than home ! .on such trips I keep myself awake this time in the mountains around Lago di Como, while on "hanging on to cliffs roads" that are too narrow for bicycles) by counting the # of Lancia I see.
I see many old & new Y, many Musa (which, for what it is, is OK...says me) & an amazing # of lancia-badged fiatcitroenlanciapeugeot big fat People-Mover-Vans I never see (in Italy) the fiatpeugeotcitroen version of these vans !

I saw a few Delta ..as I have for the past few yearsa & ...as always...wish I had some reason to justify buying one.

I think they are so lanciaish, lovely, weird, away off the main track...all of which is good ! and ... for my muny...expensive...which is bad

My Fiat Stilo will have to do for another # of yrs; there is no reason to sell it, but maybe stampeding herd of bison will...oops, we have no bison is Heidelberg !!!

[Geoff]

Ed Levin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you've 'only' got 53 years in the US, I've
> actually got a few years on you. So I've also seen
> cars thoroughly dumbed down for the American
> market. And if that turns out to be Fiat Group's
> strategy for the Lancia-Chrysler alliance, I'll be
> whining and moaning with the rest of you.
>
> But I'll say it again, and then I'm pretty much
> done with this thread: we're discussing the car
> that showed up in Detroit--at least I thought we
> were. And the car that showed up in Detroit wasn't
> bowdlerized, bastardized, or otherwise compromised
> for the US market. Except to change the grille and
> badges (dumb as that is), it was an unadulterated
> Lancia Delta.
>
> And what's the reaction of the lancisti? Bring it
> here as soon as possible? It's great, but please
> keep it badged as a Lancia? I'll buy one? No.
> Forget it--it'll just get bastardized. They should
> just kill the marque. The world is ending.

Ed makes some pretty good points here. I've been somewhat "arms length" on this one, waiting to see what is in mind. But Ed's point of "if they bring the Delta, that would be just fine" seems pretty good to me too. If there is a Lancia quality to that car, and there seems to be, then having that here makes a better world of cars for us in the often-compromised US market.

Its likely it will be changed - that's the poor history of Fiat running Lancia, especially recently, where the brand is close to dead.
Looked at in detail, the Beta years may have more to offer as a conceptual approach on how to distinguish a brand-in-a-brand, and maintain identity than the present situation. However, handled with care, even the present Lancia brand could be nursed back to life, and products like the Delta and Y could show the way. A bit more success, a bit more freedom. Maybe it could turn out well.

Marchione's play here is not yet known. I don't know enough to say how these platform interchanges (Sebring in Europe?) really play out. One suspects there is some huge benefit in saving platform development costs, and the name of the platform seems to belie its engineering capabilities (for example, maybe in the industry Chrysler's Sebring platform is respected or admired for some qualities, lost in the midst of poor upper body development). Perhaps there is a backroom strategy that could work here.

Our American experience of the past 25 years is none too positive in this regard: bad decisions, poor leadership, and poor products, even with good engineering behind it. Its hard to know how this will unfold, and to separate hoopla from fact. I'm mildly encouraged by the fact the Delta was shown unmodified, as a trial baloon. It would have bene nice if it got more press (gee, if the NYT had loved the car, etc...), but maybe its a foot in the door.