And an Ami 8 doesnt share the same bits as a Dyane??? (Engine??) but a much heavier car so slow. The Dyane you could take the seats out for a picnic and was more aerodynamic than a 2CV whos doors were so flimsy that the opened up at the top over 65 mph!!!
Before buying either do you or JJ suffer from sea sickness?? So much fun to drive but lean angles unreal...
Tim
Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
I didn't know 2Cv even reached 65mph...except in the Alps, weeeeeeeeeeeeeee !
They were 1 of few euro-cars that were built right after WW II that didn't reach US safety standards, which..by the way... didn't exist back then... & therefore the 2CV was never officially imported to the 50 states or PR.
Hmm, only a small handful of Citroen made it to the USA back then anyway. Certainly the DS was far too advanced for US buyers, although it did have (on luxus models) quite a bit of chrome. I understand that a few Panhards were brough to the USA by soldiers returning from a French tour-of-duty as well, but were not officially imported by anyone !
Some SM's were legally imported in the 70's, but in micro #'s. Anyway since that was much later, so it doesn't count. I wonder how many USA Citroen dealers (there couldn't have been many) could do even the simplest maintenance (which, as we know, wasn't very simple) on a SM, ID or DS.
Was it the SM that required removing the fixed roof to get to the spare tire...or was the battery reached by removing a front fender ?
Recently I read a report on owning & maintaining a DS or an ID these days; when almost no 1 is still around that actually worked on them when they were new / newish ........... all I will say is "Nightmare-Time" & very high maintenance costs.
Still, it seems that no one in the USA ever had a hankering for a 2CV & so they remain mostly totally unknown there; excepting for tourists who survived not being run over by 1 in Paris.
My friends who now own 2CV (locally known as " der Ente" (the Duck) swear by them...as long as they don't have to drive outside of town !!! So, the possibility of us buying the "less ugly Duck" D are not very high !!
They were 1 of few euro-cars that were built right after WW II that didn't reach US safety standards, which..by the way... didn't exist back then... & therefore the 2CV was never officially imported to the 50 states or PR.
Hmm, only a small handful of Citroen made it to the USA back then anyway. Certainly the DS was far too advanced for US buyers, although it did have (on luxus models) quite a bit of chrome. I understand that a few Panhards were brough to the USA by soldiers returning from a French tour-of-duty as well, but were not officially imported by anyone !
Some SM's were legally imported in the 70's, but in micro #'s. Anyway since that was much later, so it doesn't count. I wonder how many USA Citroen dealers (there couldn't have been many) could do even the simplest maintenance (which, as we know, wasn't very simple) on a SM, ID or DS.
Was it the SM that required removing the fixed roof to get to the spare tire...or was the battery reached by removing a front fender ?
Recently I read a report on owning & maintaining a DS or an ID these days; when almost no 1 is still around that actually worked on them when they were new / newish ........... all I will say is "Nightmare-Time" & very high maintenance costs.
Still, it seems that no one in the USA ever had a hankering for a 2CV & so they remain mostly totally unknown there; excepting for tourists who survived not being run over by 1 in Paris.
My friends who now own 2CV (locally known as " der Ente" (the Duck) swear by them...as long as they don't have to drive outside of town !!! So, the possibility of us buying the "less ugly Duck" D are not very high !!
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
oops, got a email about the French D, perfectly written English. French not because it was built there, but because it lives there. ! We will look at it in Alsace
Viewing the Ami 8 is scheduled for 2moro
Viewing the Ami 8 is scheduled for 2moro
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
I went to see Fulvia Z face Zitrone8...with bit of excitement. It seems that 1st-owner (from 74 - Apr 09) called now-owner / seller in Zurich last night to announce that he wanted to buy car back. The now owner called my house today to report this event, where he was met with some rather heavy abuse !
J Jr said "no, you are not selling it until my Father arrives at your father house to look at it ! If he says he will buy it then he is the buyer. If he says he isn't interested, then 1st-owner can buy it !" I then received calls from both now-owner & his dad, reporting that I had priority over 1st owner.
What did I see ? Tires from 1977 !!! & car was driven by the now-owner from Munich area to Saarland, partially at high (2CV speeds); 120 to 140kph on day he paid. He assumed that, since it had just been refurbished after having not been driven for many a year & since it had just been through a rether through 'TueV Safety-Inspection". it would have safe tires !!
Ha ha, the shop that refurbished it for 1st owner , at a cost of €1,000 +, was probably supposed to mount new tires before selling it.........ahhh?? I guess he just "forgot" to do this.
Yes, 52,ooo original km has been verified; yes, paint is original & only in need of a good polish & yes, no rust & yes, although it hasn't been driven since Apr; except in a field, by Dad, who has no street-driver license, but has a tractor license. it started instantly. I saw a bill (April 09) for a brake system rebuild, new clutch & comment reporting that ex'st pipe is "iffy", but currently 'good enuf' (rough translation) to pass Tuev.
Mom, Dad & I called Chris; they told him I was the buyer...they also gave me a copy of their newest CD which I listened to on the way home. Lovely people & lovely CD. They will have a full collection of their classical CD's for me when I return. I fell in love with these warm & friendly people.
At Dads expense, Chris told me many details about this particular Ami & his Ami Super that we hadn't discussed ( 5 min call from me to him) before. Nice conversation ! His Ami Super is now in Zurich; import taxes paid; awaiting Swiss road test. Had he not been offered the Super right after buying the 8; the 8 would live in Zurich.
Vry cmfrtbl frnt seats; horrid rear seat comfort; no rear seatbelts; interior in general "like new", rugs can't be original, or the 1st owner only drove in her socks.
I absolutely fell in love with this car; which only needs some hands-on TLC to make it (almost) shew-rum new !
Now, Chris must call 1st owner (who he has never met) to tell her that the car has been lockstock&barrel sold. Yes, I told Chris if he can sell it back for € 500 more than he paid for it, we will not be the new owner.
Fulvia lites...poifect & convex; stainless surrounds...also poifect as could be expected.
No headrests all around, as expected. Something will have to be done about this !!
More news "as time goes by" (Louis Armstrong).
PS: Yes, final order got bigger by the time I arrived to unload (good job, boys ! in selling & in unloading!) , so when we return to get the Ami8 (to a tire shop with thee) we will bring more heavy cartons & once again my poor, suffering company will pay the fuel !
Unless, of course the Dyane of tomorrow AM turns out to be a jewel we can't pass on. I hope not !!
Historical Note; Chris's mom said .. "yes, what your local partner told you is true; no 1 on this side of border speaks french...although many of us have french ancestry...but on french side of the border & far inland they all speak our dialect of german". We didn't have time to discuss why (for which I was glad) .. they also told me "we have loved Americans since the 1st GI's we ever saw gave us chocolate, when we kids in 1945 !!
What a day !!
Oh, yes...I explained to everyone at home that we will not be going to Zurich tomorrow to yell at Chris for selling
our car B) Lucky him, cause there were some hot tempers in this house.
J Jr said "no, you are not selling it until my Father arrives at your father house to look at it ! If he says he will buy it then he is the buyer. If he says he isn't interested, then 1st-owner can buy it !" I then received calls from both now-owner & his dad, reporting that I had priority over 1st owner.
What did I see ? Tires from 1977 !!! & car was driven by the now-owner from Munich area to Saarland, partially at high (2CV speeds); 120 to 140kph on day he paid. He assumed that, since it had just been refurbished after having not been driven for many a year & since it had just been through a rether through 'TueV Safety-Inspection". it would have safe tires !!
Ha ha, the shop that refurbished it for 1st owner , at a cost of €1,000 +, was probably supposed to mount new tires before selling it.........ahhh?? I guess he just "forgot" to do this.
Yes, 52,ooo original km has been verified; yes, paint is original & only in need of a good polish & yes, no rust & yes, although it hasn't been driven since Apr; except in a field, by Dad, who has no street-driver license, but has a tractor license. it started instantly. I saw a bill (April 09) for a brake system rebuild, new clutch & comment reporting that ex'st pipe is "iffy", but currently 'good enuf' (rough translation) to pass Tuev.
Mom, Dad & I called Chris; they told him I was the buyer...they also gave me a copy of their newest CD which I listened to on the way home. Lovely people & lovely CD. They will have a full collection of their classical CD's for me when I return. I fell in love with these warm & friendly people.
At Dads expense, Chris told me many details about this particular Ami & his Ami Super that we hadn't discussed ( 5 min call from me to him) before. Nice conversation ! His Ami Super is now in Zurich; import taxes paid; awaiting Swiss road test. Had he not been offered the Super right after buying the 8; the 8 would live in Zurich.
Vry cmfrtbl frnt seats; horrid rear seat comfort; no rear seatbelts; interior in general "like new", rugs can't be original, or the 1st owner only drove in her socks.
I absolutely fell in love with this car; which only needs some hands-on TLC to make it (almost) shew-rum new !
Now, Chris must call 1st owner (who he has never met) to tell her that the car has been lockstock&barrel sold. Yes, I told Chris if he can sell it back for € 500 more than he paid for it, we will not be the new owner.
Fulvia lites...poifect & convex; stainless surrounds...also poifect as could be expected.
No headrests all around, as expected. Something will have to be done about this !!
More news "as time goes by" (Louis Armstrong).
PS: Yes, final order got bigger by the time I arrived to unload (good job, boys ! in selling & in unloading!) , so when we return to get the Ami8 (to a tire shop with thee) we will bring more heavy cartons & once again my poor, suffering company will pay the fuel !
Unless, of course the Dyane of tomorrow AM turns out to be a jewel we can't pass on. I hope not !!
Historical Note; Chris's mom said .. "yes, what your local partner told you is true; no 1 on this side of border speaks french...although many of us have french ancestry...but on french side of the border & far inland they all speak our dialect of german". We didn't have time to discuss why (for which I was glad) .. they also told me "we have loved Americans since the 1st GI's we ever saw gave us chocolate, when we kids in 1945 !!
What a day !!
Oh, yes...I explained to everyone at home that we will not be going to Zurich tomorrow to yell at Chris for selling
our car B) Lucky him, cause there were some hot tempers in this house.
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
You are mostly right about Citroens in the US.... but there are pockets of exceptions. Mostly, cars like this are appreciated along the coasts, San Francisco bay area, Boston, Washington, etc. Not too much in Chicago... where I live. However - across the alley from our house, tucked in a garage is a DS which hasn't run for years, but is still there. Next to an Alfa Spider. Our local French favorite restuarant typically had a 2CV parked in front, and the motorcycle/car hobby garage that lives in a large industrial loft building has one guy who collects micro cars - and has a few 2CV's that represent the larger end of his collection. One of these he took on Peking-Paris rally some years back. There was a story about crossing a river, and having to open the doors to let the water through, else the car would get swept away.
My parents, being somewhat car buffs, loved their Lancias, but in the early 1970's, there were none to be imported. So they turned to a Citroen SM, which they ran for about 8 years, very happily here. Stories of wafting down the road over 100 mph with four people in comfort were told. Yes, changing the timing chain was necessary, but all this can be done. Where there is a will, there is a way.
A bientot,
Geoff
My parents, being somewhat car buffs, loved their Lancias, but in the early 1970's, there were none to be imported. So they turned to a Citroen SM, which they ran for about 8 years, very happily here. Stories of wafting down the road over 100 mph with four people in comfort were told. Yes, changing the timing chain was necessary, but all this can be done. Where there is a will, there is a way.
A bientot,
Geoff
Geoff Goldberg
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
ouch...I am in love. The French Blue Lemon-Flower is a beauty.
Marc, the seller, told me...everyone in France wants a 2CV & no one wants a Dyane. Lucky for me.
We had fun speaking frenchgermanenglish&signbodylanguage as he told me story of his long ownership & we bumped around town, switching seats...he in front, me in back , both in front...but we didn't drive with both of us in back (hahaha). I had a ball driving; he didn't scream !
Condition...visually & mechanically - TOPS. Yes, the 1st owner was an older woman; who had the 2d motor installed just before she traded it in for another Lemon; Yes, she kept it in a garage. It now lives in Marc's moms garage. She, 85 yrs young, is a friend for life.
YOU WILL NEVER GUESS WHAT SHE TOLD ME ........
She said "we knew the Americans were coming; so we came out of hiding. She told me, in French, where they had been hiding, but I didn't understand, so I said "uh ha or ah ha". The 1st Americans came on Motorcycles marked MilitarEEE Police; the gave us chocolate and our beloved Alsasce back, We spent 3 hours together, she is a walking history book,,,incredible stories about the French Resistance; time of occupation and much more . You don't want to hear them! Marc, a technical-trade school-director, had never heard them before & he is 45 !!
I think he went into shock !!
I could have stayed longer; I promised to return,
Marc will replace the 12 yr old tires & replace 1 snap on the roll top & have a complete "official control" done, so it is certifiably fault free. The small perfortion he refers to in ebay is so small a pencil wouldn't go through it,
He will do what it takes to make it as perfect as a 34yr old Dyane can be; as long as his expense doesn't exceed what we agreed upon. It has to be tip-top to have it road-approved in Germany. We agreed that I would pay only what he invests; which will be done via the 2CV club he belongs to; with all club discounts.
He just wants to see that it goes to a good home & that it visits him a few times a year !!!
In turn, I had to promise that both John's will visit his school and "do something", in English!! As often as we can,
with no restriction as to the # of visits per year or the # of years we will do this. I have no idea what this means; but it is 35 minutes away (in a fast Gamma)...so it should be manageable.
This has nothing to do with the Ami8; it turns out that this will be a separate matter, among old friends !!
Of course, it the expenses making the Dyane exceed any possibly real-value, we will find another way to get the car out of his moms garage !!!!
Oh yes, there were persons walking dogs who accelerated as fast as the Dyane did, but we were in town. Marc said, 80 is as fast as you will ever wish to drive...best in the middle of a convoy of 2CV.
Marc, the seller, told me...everyone in France wants a 2CV & no one wants a Dyane. Lucky for me.
We had fun speaking frenchgermanenglish&signbodylanguage as he told me story of his long ownership & we bumped around town, switching seats...he in front, me in back , both in front...but we didn't drive with both of us in back (hahaha). I had a ball driving; he didn't scream !
Condition...visually & mechanically - TOPS. Yes, the 1st owner was an older woman; who had the 2d motor installed just before she traded it in for another Lemon; Yes, she kept it in a garage. It now lives in Marc's moms garage. She, 85 yrs young, is a friend for life.
YOU WILL NEVER GUESS WHAT SHE TOLD ME ........
She said "we knew the Americans were coming; so we came out of hiding. She told me, in French, where they had been hiding, but I didn't understand, so I said "uh ha or ah ha". The 1st Americans came on Motorcycles marked MilitarEEE Police; the gave us chocolate and our beloved Alsasce back, We spent 3 hours together, she is a walking history book,,,incredible stories about the French Resistance; time of occupation and much more . You don't want to hear them! Marc, a technical-trade school-director, had never heard them before & he is 45 !!
I think he went into shock !!
I could have stayed longer; I promised to return,
Marc will replace the 12 yr old tires & replace 1 snap on the roll top & have a complete "official control" done, so it is certifiably fault free. The small perfortion he refers to in ebay is so small a pencil wouldn't go through it,
He will do what it takes to make it as perfect as a 34yr old Dyane can be; as long as his expense doesn't exceed what we agreed upon. It has to be tip-top to have it road-approved in Germany. We agreed that I would pay only what he invests; which will be done via the 2CV club he belongs to; with all club discounts.
He just wants to see that it goes to a good home & that it visits him a few times a year !!!
In turn, I had to promise that both John's will visit his school and "do something", in English!! As often as we can,
with no restriction as to the # of visits per year or the # of years we will do this. I have no idea what this means; but it is 35 minutes away (in a fast Gamma)...so it should be manageable.
This has nothing to do with the Ami8; it turns out that this will be a separate matter, among old friends !!
Of course, it the expenses making the Dyane exceed any possibly real-value, we will find another way to get the car out of his moms garage !!!!
Oh yes, there were persons walking dogs who accelerated as fast as the Dyane did, but we were in town. Marc said, 80 is as fast as you will ever wish to drive...best in the middle of a convoy of 2CV.
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gamma a.i.
- Posts: 888
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 14:18
Re: not the Zagato in Man...
ouch...I am in love. The D is a beauty. Even iffit has no fulvia face !!
Marc, the seller, told me ...'everyone in France wants a 2CV & no one wants a D. I like my D because no 1 else has one...but I drive only 2 or 3 weekends a year & that isn't good for the car. Besides, I have a 204 Cabrio that I drive more, so 1 of them has to go'. Lucky for me.
We had fun speaking frenchgermanenglish&signbodylanguage as he told me his story of the D, as we bumped & rolled around town; switching seats several times...he in front, me in back, both in front, he in the back (1st time for everything)..but we didn't drive with both of us in back (hahaha). I had a ball driving; he didn't scream! Everyone waved. We saw some nice-cars, from old Jags to new Ferrari, from a fun-rallye,they honked !!
I still didn't know where the horn button was, so I couldn't honk; we just waved.
Condition...visually & mechanically - TOPS.
Marc will replace the very old tires; have a complete "official control" done, so it is certifiably fault free. The perforation he referred to in ebay.fr is so small a pencil wouldn't go through it, It will be welded.
He will do what it takes to make it as safety-perfect as a 34yr old D can be; as long as his expense doesn't exceed what we agreed upon pricewise.
It has to be tip-top to have it road-approved in Germany. We agreed that I would pay only what he invests; which will be done via the 2CV club he belongs to; with all club discounts.
He just wants to see that it goes to a good home & that it visits him a few times a year !!!
In turn, I had to promise that both John's will visit his school and "do something for the studentrs" in English!! As often as we can, with no restriction as to the # of visits per year or the # of years we will do this. I have no idea what this means; but it is only 35 minutes away (in a fast Gamma)...so it should be manageable.
This has nothing to do with the Ami8; it turns out that the D sale will be a separate matter, among old friends !!
Of course, it the expenses making the Dyane exceed any possibly real-value, we will find another way to get the car out of his moms garage & on the road; perhaps still on French plates & lent to us to test, forever !!!!
Oh yes, there were persons walking dogs who accelerated as fast as the Dyane did, but we were in town!!!
Marc said 80kph is as fast as we will ever wish to drive...& Chris has confirmed again today that we are to be the owners of his Ami8. Mymymy !!! Who gets which one ?? Decisions decisions !!
Marc, the seller, told me ...'everyone in France wants a 2CV & no one wants a D. I like my D because no 1 else has one...but I drive only 2 or 3 weekends a year & that isn't good for the car. Besides, I have a 204 Cabrio that I drive more, so 1 of them has to go'. Lucky for me.
We had fun speaking frenchgermanenglish&signbodylanguage as he told me his story of the D, as we bumped & rolled around town; switching seats several times...he in front, me in back, both in front, he in the back (1st time for everything)..but we didn't drive with both of us in back (hahaha). I had a ball driving; he didn't scream! Everyone waved. We saw some nice-cars, from old Jags to new Ferrari, from a fun-rallye,they honked !!
I still didn't know where the horn button was, so I couldn't honk; we just waved.
Condition...visually & mechanically - TOPS.
Marc will replace the very old tires; have a complete "official control" done, so it is certifiably fault free. The perforation he referred to in ebay.fr is so small a pencil wouldn't go through it, It will be welded.
He will do what it takes to make it as safety-perfect as a 34yr old D can be; as long as his expense doesn't exceed what we agreed upon pricewise.
It has to be tip-top to have it road-approved in Germany. We agreed that I would pay only what he invests; which will be done via the 2CV club he belongs to; with all club discounts.
He just wants to see that it goes to a good home & that it visits him a few times a year !!!
In turn, I had to promise that both John's will visit his school and "do something for the studentrs" in English!! As often as we can, with no restriction as to the # of visits per year or the # of years we will do this. I have no idea what this means; but it is only 35 minutes away (in a fast Gamma)...so it should be manageable.
This has nothing to do with the Ami8; it turns out that the D sale will be a separate matter, among old friends !!
Of course, it the expenses making the Dyane exceed any possibly real-value, we will find another way to get the car out of his moms garage & on the road; perhaps still on French plates & lent to us to test, forever !!!!
Oh yes, there were persons walking dogs who accelerated as fast as the Dyane did, but we were in town!!!
Marc said 80kph is as fast as we will ever wish to drive...& Chris has confirmed again today that we are to be the owners of his Ami8. Mymymy !!! Who gets which one ?? Decisions decisions !!
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Ralph deMasi
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 00:29
Re: Fulvia Zagato in Manchester
I had a Renault R5 in Brooklyn, NY back in the Eighties. It was yellow and had "Le Car" in a decal on the side. The bright color provided better odds that I would not be crushed by a Chevrolet Impala which was probably two times the length of my car.
I actually commuted in it to a job in Long Island, every day. It was front wheel drive with a longitudinal drivetrain but unlike the Fulvia the transmission was in front of the engine, that way the wheels were placed at the extreme ends of the car for a nice ride. The tiring aspect was the road noise, in no small part contributed by the fabric cutout in the roof which once opened made it into "Le Sunroof". But my wife preferred driving that to our Fiat 128 two door sedan because she had a hard time finding reverse in the Fiat's gearbox.
Ironically I sold the R5 to a French guy living in Manhattan.
I actually commuted in it to a job in Long Island, every day. It was front wheel drive with a longitudinal drivetrain but unlike the Fulvia the transmission was in front of the engine, that way the wheels were placed at the extreme ends of the car for a nice ride. The tiring aspect was the road noise, in no small part contributed by the fabric cutout in the roof which once opened made it into "Le Sunroof". But my wife preferred driving that to our Fiat 128 two door sedan because she had a hard time finding reverse in the Fiat's gearbox.
Ironically I sold the R5 to a French guy living in Manhattan.
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lancialulu
- Posts: 244
- Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 19:53
Re: Driving a Le Car
John
I am as confused as reading a Braughtigan novel!
Guess you have surcumbed to both Dyane and Ami
Re Ami lights I have bought a replacement Ami 8 lens for my Sport on ebay today - maybe cheaper than an AMi8!!!
Tim
I am as confused as reading a Braughtigan novel!
Guess you have surcumbed to both Dyane and Ami
Re Ami lights I have bought a replacement Ami 8 lens for my Sport on ebay today - maybe cheaper than an AMi8!!!
Tim