Actually I would argue that sales figures are rarely a reflection of how good a car is but that's besides the point. For example, objectively an Astra does everything a Golf does for less and is better to drive with it, so why do people buy Golfs at all? (And they do, in their hundreds of thousands).
What is the point, is that the Thesis is a very, very good car hamstrung by poor marketing and the public's notion of the default-choice Germans. But that isn't the fault of the car, which is one of Lancia's better production efforts for some time. It will take time, for word of mouth to get around the circles in which Theses are bought, that you might want to consider this. It will, because it is a good car, but it is a long-term process.
end of the road for Thesis?
-
Randy Adams
Re: end of the road for Thesis?
I DID see the Thesis in the flesh in 2003 while in Europe. I saw three or four of them in total. I thought the rear nicely detailed. I never saw the interior as each car I saw was either in motion or parked some place that did not allow me to approach and look inside. I thought the front did not get along very well with the mid-section. And it's the mid-section that reminded me of the big Hyundai. I didn't even get that idea until I saw the car in the flesh.
I understand the phenomenon of cars not photographing well, at least as the professional photographers insist upon showing cars. I thought the Fulvia Sport very ungainly until I saw one in the flesh (and then owned one for five years). Similarly I thought the Flaminia berlina dumpy until I came upon one in the metal. I now own one of those cars which can look a bit like a 1930s car at some angles but which is otherwise quite a remarkable aesthetic achievement for a mid-1950s sedan. The Flamina coupe can look graceful and sleek or hopelessly boxy, depending upon where you stand when you look at it. Perhaps if I had more opportunities to view the Thesis I would find its good angles.
As a contrast, I consider the 166. That car, in my opinion, is a very beautiful four door sedan with no bad angles. It looks like a fast car when it is standing still. It would have sold briskly in the U.S. if Fiat Auto had not stupidly pulled Alfa out of this market. In fact Honda appears to have stolen the lines of the 166 for one of its successful Acura models here.
I had my encounters with the Thesis in 2003, in Amsterdam and Paris. I was in Paris again for eight days in June of 2004. I saw no Thesis during that visit although I did see one Kappa sedan and, even though they are now pretty old, a couple of well-loved Themas. I also saw two or three Dedras, but they were all dilapidated, suggesting that the Dedra does not inspire much love from its owner.
I am not a Lancia knocker. I just drove home from work in my 1981 Beta coupe which, for my money, remains one of the finest-looking coupes in the U.S.. It is also still a much better handling car than a surprisingly large proportion of the new cars on the market. It takes some serious love for the marque to stick to what is now a quite rare 23 year old car. I cannot buy a newer Lancia--I don't have that option and the old one is slowly becoming more challenging to keep on the road, thanks to California's difficult air pollution inspections. I do insist on driving a car that is pleasing to the eye--something for which Lancia has long been known--as well as engaging behind the wheel. A Thesis coupe--if it didn't retain any of the sedan's sheet metal--would be a very interesting proposition but if the sedan isn't selling, then there certainly won't be a coupe.
I understand the phenomenon of cars not photographing well, at least as the professional photographers insist upon showing cars. I thought the Fulvia Sport very ungainly until I saw one in the flesh (and then owned one for five years). Similarly I thought the Flaminia berlina dumpy until I came upon one in the metal. I now own one of those cars which can look a bit like a 1930s car at some angles but which is otherwise quite a remarkable aesthetic achievement for a mid-1950s sedan. The Flamina coupe can look graceful and sleek or hopelessly boxy, depending upon where you stand when you look at it. Perhaps if I had more opportunities to view the Thesis I would find its good angles.
As a contrast, I consider the 166. That car, in my opinion, is a very beautiful four door sedan with no bad angles. It looks like a fast car when it is standing still. It would have sold briskly in the U.S. if Fiat Auto had not stupidly pulled Alfa out of this market. In fact Honda appears to have stolen the lines of the 166 for one of its successful Acura models here.
I had my encounters with the Thesis in 2003, in Amsterdam and Paris. I was in Paris again for eight days in June of 2004. I saw no Thesis during that visit although I did see one Kappa sedan and, even though they are now pretty old, a couple of well-loved Themas. I also saw two or three Dedras, but they were all dilapidated, suggesting that the Dedra does not inspire much love from its owner.
I am not a Lancia knocker. I just drove home from work in my 1981 Beta coupe which, for my money, remains one of the finest-looking coupes in the U.S.. It is also still a much better handling car than a surprisingly large proportion of the new cars on the market. It takes some serious love for the marque to stick to what is now a quite rare 23 year old car. I cannot buy a newer Lancia--I don't have that option and the old one is slowly becoming more challenging to keep on the road, thanks to California's difficult air pollution inspections. I do insist on driving a car that is pleasing to the eye--something for which Lancia has long been known--as well as engaging behind the wheel. A Thesis coupe--if it didn't retain any of the sedan's sheet metal--would be a very interesting proposition but if the sedan isn't selling, then there certainly won't be a coupe.
-
Julian
Re: end of the road for Thesis?
I agree with Shant. I remember Alfa went through a similar transition in the UK in the 1990’s with the 75-155-156 range, which I believe was greatly helped by the success of the 155 in the UK touring car series.
Maybe FIAT is misguided in spending its entire competition budget on Ferrari at the expense of all other marks in the group, as many people do not associate the two manufactures. A successful team of Thesis in the European touring car championship or even a new Fulvia HF in the WRC would greatly benefit the mark.
As proved by the success of the 156 in the UK market, there are many drivers out there who would happily drive a stylish alternative to a German car. However the cars have to be reliable, economically viable and have something different from the usual German offering. It’s a sad fact that currently our fleet buyer (All Audi’s) would not have a Lancia or any Italian car if they gave them away.
Julian
Maybe FIAT is misguided in spending its entire competition budget on Ferrari at the expense of all other marks in the group, as many people do not associate the two manufactures. A successful team of Thesis in the European touring car championship or even a new Fulvia HF in the WRC would greatly benefit the mark.
As proved by the success of the 156 in the UK market, there are many drivers out there who would happily drive a stylish alternative to a German car. However the cars have to be reliable, economically viable and have something different from the usual German offering. It’s a sad fact that currently our fleet buyer (All Audi’s) would not have a Lancia or any Italian car if they gave them away.
Julian