nice article on a Fulvia from the USA

[Philip]

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/c ... index.html

[lucasgeheniau]

Thanks for the tip, very nice article!

[gamma a.i.]

well written; but some horrible gaffs & some good laffs:

here is a laff: (quote)
The first Lancia Fulvia was an upscale sedan of compact dimension and microscopic displacement.

upscale, compact, microscopic in 1 sentence ! IMPRESSIVE !!
a) pray tell, what was upscale on the 1st Fulvia ? it was simplicity pure & rather bare-bones ! OK; a roof & windows it did have...but was that really upscale in the 60's ?
b) compact...OK, since (I assume) the author is comparing it to USA QE II luxo-barges of the 60's...but by Euro standards a Ren'O R4 was a big compact; a Fiat 500 was a micro-compact. The Fulvia was, ahem...eeer
"rather boxy" and without frillls::: but not really compact !
c) finally "microscopic displacement.", eer, ahem 'Jamie the Kit-Man' ...anything over 1,000cc was, in Ital & many other places in Europa (& Japan) definitely "middle-class" in the 60's. It was the baby NSU's et al that had microscopic displacement. - "dangerous at no speed"! (tip o' the Hat to Ralph Nader!)

eeerrr..enough nit picking about 1 sentence:D !

However, SIR JAMIE THE GAFFER ...get out your I-Glasses & put 'em on ! Quote:
"Coachbuilder (should be 2 words, says John) Zagato was set loose on the platform, too, but the result, the Fulvia Sport Zagato, was less elegant than the standard coupe".
TO WHICH I REPLY; IN A LOUD VOICE:X !! "WHO SAYS ?" (td)"SAYS WHO"(td) "THEMS FIGHTING WORDS (for some of us) , EVEN IF WE (secretly) AGREE ( a little) ! GAFF # 1 !
AND THE FINAL STRAW IS GAFF #2: QUOTE:
'Unlike the Flavia, which was burdened with a lackluster flat four etc'.
WHAT ? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND ? (yes, you are) ...
HEY; MY MAN !!!! have you ever had the pleasure of owning a flat 4 Lancia ?
HA ! I DIDN'T THINK SO !! ASK HUIB !!!
I, as an ex - Lanca 2000 owner, can tell you ..... well, just forget it ! I'd be a wasting my time !!
You probably think anything less that a 427 Chevy is "lackluster" ! (actually, I am just joshing !)
Hmmm, however, anyway, & moreso, I hav'nt pulled any tree stumps out of the swamp with my fat 4 Gamma lately either...its fat four is (once it get warm) a hot spoon in a honey jar...smooth & slick !
OK; it will not out-drag a 427, nor top out in a Ferrari league, but lack luster it ain't ! SO THERE !!!

Back to Fulvia - Kit-Man writes: "This realization is joined by one's sense that this machine-so much better than it had to be-... GAMMA MAN SAYS: "huh, have you been taking some 'funny-pills'....or do you always write such "overly bloated senseless prose" ? Even if it sound nice !
QUOTE "also represented a selfless gift to humanity. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ?? I MEAN; LIKE; JUST GAG ME WITH A SPOON !! THIS PROSE IS JUST; LIKE; TOOOOO HEAVY !!
QUOTE: "This is precomputer, twentieth-century Italian engineering at its hard-core best, metallurgy at its most joyous. ..." I ASSOUT .............WAIT !; OK; I FIGURED IT OUT !!! YOU GET PAID "BY WORD" & NOT BY MAKING SENSE SENSE SENSE !

Even if I have to agree....yes, the Fulvia C (Z included) & Berlina (as long as I am at it; I'll add it too...to keep EVERYONE HAPPY) are works ofautomotive art, never before has man, since the beginning of recorded history & even before that ever, reached such lofty pinnacle.......HEY, WAIT A MINUTE !! Now I am trying to out due Jamie ! SORRY (td)

The late John Bond (Road & Track Editor) wrote, in the early 70's or late 60's (not an exact quote) "too little, too loud, too expensive".

He was right; he still is...except that they are not (we pray) expensive anymore !

FINALLY; WE LIKED THE ARTICLE; WE AGREE WITH EVERYTHING; WE GOT A FEW LAUGHS... THANK YOU FOR SUCH A NICE ARTICLE...very helpful in grey cold N. Euro in February ::: & FIANYLLIE, AGIAN & WON MOORE TIME ....GOOD KNIGHT B)

gAMMA AZIN gOAT ; Fulvia a.i. Claire & Me !

[Ed Levin]

The author, Jamie Kitman, has owned that car for quite a few years, and it's a nice article. Agree or disagree, but Kitman is a true lancista. But I thought we had a thread on this last November when it was published--obviously my memory's going...

And Gamma. a.i., it's time to adjust the meds, lad. The Fulvia was indeed "upscale" at the time of its introduction; it was considerably more expensive than the equivalent Fiat, with far more refinement and a far higher build quality. It was aimed at a higher market segment than the equivalent Fiat.

[gamma a.i.]

I hope that everyone who read my message takes it with a big pound of salt ! I wrote it to have fun, riding in a train on the way home.

But..Ed, concerning your comment about Fiat...I beg Your Pardon !!

I, John, had a Fiat 1500 in the mid 70's for 10 minutes; I loved it, since it was a like-new car bought for DM 600 this was about $ 250 in those days. The Polish owner, who worked for the US Army in Mannheim, Germany decided to sell it - to buy a new Beetle, which (he said) would be better in the snow. He was just putting a 4sale sign in the window as I drove by. I turned around, argued with him a little & bought it, left my Benz SL withhim as collateral & drove the Fiat back to my design-studio...1km away & parked it. I then returned tho his office to pay for the car & get my 'collateral' back.

I drove on to where ever I was going & then returned to the studio. John...another John...was waiting for me.
He, an American civilian, also worked for Unkla Sam (which I no longer did). I knew him, since a few weeks before he had stolen a Beetle that I'd just bought - an early 50's new-like-car, 1 owner, German Doctor. The doctor was a nice man, neighbor, who told interesting sad tragic stories about "the War as a Combat Doctor".

I wanted a nice old Beetle, I put an ad in the local newspaper & he called me. He didn't wan to drive it anymore because he, being a older-Doctor, had bought a Benz &, besides, his children wouldn't be seen dead driving a Beetle (poor kids drove Beetles) as their 1st cars. So, he parked it for 20 or more years, loved it as a child & ( I swear) drove it to church with this wife on Sunday. Then back into the garage,
He, John saw the Beetle, which was -parked for about 1 minutes- in front of the studio. He just happened to be walking by as I drove it in to the parking lot.
This parking lot was, soon after I moved in, to become an automobile-art gallery. It was rented by me along with the studio & thereby reserved for only "me & mine". John entered the studio as I did; while asking me what chassis # the Beetle had.
I thought he was crazy, until he told me that I had a "extremely rare, manufactured in "I forget where", by "I forget whom" Beetle that was worth a fortune & what did I want for it. He knew the first digits of the chassis #; but he couldn't know the exact #, because there were several dozen of that model built by ? in ? in the year (if I remeber correctly 1951?) ...but he knew the chassis # within (I think I remember) 6 #'s.
Amazing ! He wanted it for an exhibition in Las Vegas.
I told him the car was planned to become part of a traveling fashion-exhibition & I didn't wish to sell it.
He wouldn't take no for an answer & offered me 10x what I had just paid. !! I fell down in shock & entered the car business...at that moment.
I upset a few people when I told them that that particular car had been stolen & saved my own life by promising that I would quickly look for an equally nice replacement. Enter the Fiat 1500!
Then, John, again! Goodbye Fiat !
I called an Albanian friend to complain that I couldn't find a nice car old enough for the exhibition. He told me to walk across the street to his "real car lot", which was located inside an active junk-yard & look a Fiat 1500 he had just bought. & a giant tutone art-deco chrome laden blue & white Opel (Commodore ? Admiral,,, I don't remember) with a Wurlizer Jukebox interior !

The Fiat was the same nondescript beige as the Fiat I had just sold to John, with the same lovely dark-red plastic interior. Next to the Opel it looked like a Taxi !
It, the Fiat, didn't join the fashion exhibition; the Opel did. I'd bought both cars from my Albanian Friend. All I had to do was push them across the street!

Advantage of renting a building across from a junk yard? It was cheap !

I had that Fiat for a few weeks; even had time to register it & drive it locally,,, until an Italian friend bought it from me, although I didn't tell him it was for sale; which it wasn't.

He gave me (for pennies) a (yes, extremely rare) Ford Taunus 15M RS (pre-Capri RS Ford Sport Model), since he was always being hassled by "everyone", Italians, Germans, Americans for being Italian but driving a German Ford & parking it in his Pizzeria parking lot. The Ford was once silver; when I got it is was gray..a very shiny gray, but no longer metallic.

I remember the Italian very well, Carlo from Sardenia... If you didn't park in his parking lot with the sole-intention of coming into the restaurant, he would run around the parking lot threatening to smash your car with the largest frying pan anyone had ever seen. I tell the truth ! Little Carlo made everyone who crossed him either go inside & order at least a Pizza or park somewhere else.
I kept the Ford for many years...it was so much fun, I'd leave (what had by now become a huge collection of Euro cars in a greatly expanded Studio/Gallery/Showroom/by now fenced in & secured parking lot) the fancy cars locked up & drive my "cool Ford"; all the time wishing I still had a cool Fiat 1500.
The Opel was the car that gained the most attention though !!

History: Until the Fiat 124 / 131 era, there were almost no Italian Fiats in N. Europa & most Fiats that were in N Europa were locally built-up, imported as knock-downs, having been transported by trains from Italy. This was long before the EU & open trade. A % of local-content was required to avoid hi-mport-taxes.
Enter the NSU Fiat Company; a company which I didn't even realize existed until many years later!
The Fiat Fiats that were in N. Europe were brought to N. Europe by their Italian owners.

My 2 Fiats were Italian Fiats. They were, in & for themselves, works of art-deco Art.

A rich Italian friend (furniture importer) had a Fulvia Berlina as his daily driver, which he told me was a much better car than the Fiat 1500. I didn't believe him ! I still don't. It had such a plain interior !

I didn't buy any furniture from him...a middle-priced (white marble & gold deco) desk/sideboard cost more than a new Fiat + a new Lancia together & weighed more. I bough a "cheap imitation" model & lost a friend. I still have the desk/sideboard. The red brown cheap marble still makes me happy !

The Opel is long gone, as is the Ford. I have no idea about the Fiats nor that mysterious VW.

When my "design-business" went down the drain some years later (killed by the changing exchange rates) I was so firmly entrenched in the fun-car-business, which had actually self-developed as a parallel business to the real business, that I was happy to be able to dedicate my life to one business & not have to dance at 5 weddings everyday; all at the same time. By this time, the junk yard was gone & the street became respectable !

I got to drive so many great cars & to own so many great cars...it was a great 20 years. John was a great broker, he had a great reputation in the USA among low.end Euro-Car afficiandos. He told me what he needed & we (sometimes) found them.

I still have Fiats as company drivers, but I've also added a # of nice Lancia to my (private) life & actually.... yesterday, was discussing with my son (yet another John) which car he should drive as his 'first car'.
We decided that it will be (not joking now) a Fulvia Berlina (unless I can find a Fiat 1500 !!!) ; but that it wouldn't be driven in winter. So we need 2 first cars !!! Maybe a plain-jane 4 door Lybra (so I can drive it too !)

My wife, who didn't know me in the car days (lucky her) , just shook her head, in sorrow !

[Ed Levin]

gamma a.i. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A rich Italian friend (furniture importer) had a
> Fulvia Berlina as his daily driver, which he told
> me was a much better car than the Fiat 1500. I
> didn't believe him ! I still don't. It had
> such a plain interior !

In Italy, particularly in the era you're discussing, Lancia was an "old money" car--a 'bank vault' door shut, a silky engine, and precisely-engineered controls were better sales points than a flashy interior.

[gamma a.i.]

QUOTE: In Italy, particularly in the era you're discussing, Lancia was an "old money" car--a 'bank vault' door shut, a silky engine, and precisely-engineered controls were better sales points than a flashy interior.

Of course you are correct. I agree, but "Art-Deco" & I are in love.

The 1500 Fiat had a slight bit of A.D. in details; the Opel (see - www.philseed.com/opkap5859.html) was a rolling Art-Deco Museum...like a shrunken late195o's Buick ! But no portholes (:P)

Back to Lance. I agree: I thought I was 'gliding-on-air the 1st time I drove a 2000 Berlina'...
The story of owning that Lancia is another long; old; best forgotten story; - just like me .

I've never rode in nor driven a Fulvia Berlina, so I can't comment; the same is true for a standard Coupe.
I have been only a Z-Boy ! Small, loud, uncomfortable...ha ha ... I love it !!!

I'll post an "old-money bank-vault" Lancia story herein, in the next days...about a Berlina in Italia that I should have bought...buy alas,weep,weep...did not ! Drat !!!

correction: this is the right (6cyl) Opel: http://www.philseed.com/opkap5963.html; the link shown above is of another nice, but somewhat smaller Opel, so I'll leave that link.

[lucasgeheniau]

Hi John,

Do you still have that rattling old Z? Wisdom goes with age, most of the times...... >:D<

It is Berlina(Berlinetta) time now, I dismounted my 4 Zagato's in order to have spare parts for my Berlina.
You know the roofline of the RR Silver Shadow is copied from the Fulvia Berlina?
Piero Castagnero copied the Fulvia Coupe from a Michelotti Fiat from 1961.
-D

[gamma a.i.]

Lucas. it is alway me that is rattling...the car is fine & rust free !

You are always a source of Fulvia secrets that the rest of us would never otherwise know; thank you.

Did I mention...no, I didn't....that the 1st Benz SL that I ever bought, the 230SL referred to above, came to me in the mid 70's & is now in California. It was factory ordered & driven by a dentist from Hannover, who had the Benz factory paint it a special red that he liked; much against their will, since it was more or less the color of dried ketchup....& to make it even better (?) had them paint the removable hardtop in a 'phony-vinyl-top-surface -of-the-moon-pattern" so it looked like a black soft top & not a hardtop? To him anyway !
With a 4 speed trans & a camel leather interior it was a really "special-car", so I bought it. A black soft-top; I never drove opened...even in summer. Canvas cutting thieves were lurking in the shadows !!

The Herr Doktor told me "no one else will buy it because no one else but you & I like it & besides you are the only person who called about it & I already have a new Benz...a 280SL (newer body style) to drive, so the red pone must go". Those were the days !!!

The $ was high against the DM & the SL (condition A1) was cheap...after all, he had depreciated it down to a few cents in his books & couldn't drive it any longer as his official, depreciable, tax-deductible car....nor could he give the buyer an official "Bill of Sale", for his own tax-reasons ! I didn't really require a bill of sale: The title I was given upon payment proved I had bought it, not stolen it.

It cost, if me memory serves me well, about $ 2,500. It was a real Wolf in Wolfs (red riding hood) Clothes...a hot-rod with class & even better than a Fiat 1500 .
I got to impress myself at the (then) price of what a VW Beetle cost - in Germany. Too bad I didn't keep it !

[gamma a.i.]

Lucas, is this the Fiat you were referring to ? www.fiat2300.de/mediac/400_0/media/pininspeccoup.jpg
I want one !

Here is the Fiat 1500 I loved;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 1962_1.jpg.

I just discovered that Seat produced more of this model (200,000...wow) in Spain than Fiat did in Italy !
& produced much longer ... as taxi !
& with a Mercedes Diesel !

Now I know where to look to find one !