Headgasket woes

[ekranoplan]

My normal commuting car was unavailable due wheel bearing replacement so I took the wonderful Fulvia to work - around 50 kms drive.

Everything was fine until about 3 kms from the office - it was foggy ouside but looking in the mirror is was more foggy!

Stopping on the country lane the steam rose from under the bonnet.

Nothing obvious at first - no water out of the exhaust.

Temps and Pressures all normal so pulled into carpark.

Within a few minutes a large puddle of antifreeze (green stuff).

Pulled the spark plugs out - no water coming out on turn over.

Trouble spottted at rear of engine between iron block and alloy head - beneath the mechanical speedo drive and oil filler neck.

Almost as if a piece of headgasket had been bown out.

Engineers at work lent me torque wrench and head bolts tested - most were at 3.2kgm with minor variation.

Engine has done about 200 miles since rebuild including running in and oil change.

There is a black stain near to leak.

2 litres of water added and engine run (all 4 firing normally) for one minute - most of the water expelled out of same leak point.

So maybe a dodgy headgasket originally or can the block go porous like some Jaguar engines?

Will have to remove head to find extent of damage.

Just arrived home after a long day!

[ekranoplan]

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[lancialulu]

Looks like head gasket. Are you using high tensile cap bolts or fiat standard? Can you run the car without the rad cap on an not loose water - ie is the gasket also leaking twixt No3 cylinder and the water channel?

Be interested in a photo of the gasket when you have stripped it! Is it a 1600?

Tim

[ekranoplan]

Yes 1600

No water came out of the exhaust - all spark plugs clean and no water in the cylinder bores.

All water came out of the back - maybe a substandard or chinese fake gasket was unintentionally installed during rebuild.

I have heard of even Dunlop brake parts being sold as genuine ones with all correct logos so perhaps this was a fake Spresso gasket?

[ekranoplan]

Head bolts are modern allen cap screws not FIAT ones

[ekranoplan]

taking the rad cap off with engine switched off you can see more water seeping out of same area.

[Ralph deMasi]

The cylinders are surrounded by a metal ring of sorts on the head gasket itself so it's possible that it stopped water from entering the cylinder. I would be more worried about water in the oil sump as the darker mark might indicate that oil is also seeping out. I know some oil passages pass through the cast iron cylinder section on its way to the cylinder head, I just don't remember if there is one of those passages at the back where you're having the problem. I will see if I can look at a spare I have laying around somewhere.

Was the head gasket put in dry or with a sealer? Although I always put a sealer on I don't know if this is warranted or not. Some of the other members might have an opinion or more information.

[gamma a.i.]

sealer ? si !

[Stefan Elshout]

I think there is one thing you should watch...
Because you said that you rebuild the engine i think you might grinded the cilinderhead.
When flattening or grinding the cilinderhead they sometimes use cutting machine with a large circular cutter which is let's say 200mm. To make the surface smooth they adjust this cutter under an slight angle (maby only 1 of 2 degrees), so that while cutting, only the front of it touches the material and the back of it is just a littlebit above the material. Because it's adjust at an angle, it means that they cut away more material in the middle than on the outside, that's not a problem with normal cilinderheads but because these fulvia cilinderheads are so wide that could cause some problems witch result in leaking.
First of all i don't know if you (they) grinded your cilinderhead, and if you did on what kind of machine, but it can cause some problems, especially with these wide cilinderheads. So you might have to check that out.

[Ralph deMasi]

There is a spray that uses copper as a sealant for cylinder heads.

The other thing to look for is if the torque rating for those bolts is different than the the one used for the original Lancia bolts. As you seem to be using more modern cap screws they may be made with a material which requires a different setting.

The manufacturer should be able to let you know what that number is.