why no RHD Lancia??

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Nice thinking, Randy, except that the Lancia plant is also a Fiat plant.

But your post prompted me to put down in words some fundamentals which have been circulating in my head for a while now.

The Thesis is a case in point. It is a proper Lancia – except for just one thing. It has a unique platform, unique suspension, a fantastic interior, striking exterior styling (like a lot of Lancias, it’s a definite ‘grower’ – and it has certainly grown on me), and a very high level of quality. So what’s missing? Perhaps the most fundamental point of all.

Lancias have always, previously, been driver’s cars. From the Lambda to the Gamma, Aprilia to Beta, Lancias have always catered to keen drivers. You would know this well Randy – even though your Flaminias are big and heavy, their general road dynamics and roadholding are impeccable.

In one sense, perhaps, we shouldn’t be expecting so much. Lancias used to be regarded by many as the best cars in the world because, in the end analysis, of their technical sophistication. Aprilias, Aurelias, Flaminias, all of them were highly technically innovative, not just in engines but suspension design, and that allowed them to outhandle and outperform cars which you’d expect to be a no-contest in the other car’s favour.

Now clearly, a Thesis’ absolute limits are going to be much higher than a Flaminia’s. But the key difference is that the technical innovation in this era isn’t as marked – it’s a case of diminishing returns. As you get closer to the optimum solution, the difference between good and not-so-good becomes less and less marked.

In this, we have a problem. It could be argued that it is no longer possible for a Lancia to both ride and handle better than anything else, simply because the general standard is so high that almost by definition, a car which handles exceptionally well (by this I mean its absolute cornering speeds are high, not its outright ‘fun factor’) cannot have a ride as good as even a decently-riding car.

Perhaps the obvious solution, therefore, is to find a BMW-beating ride-handling compromise. There is nothing preventing Lancia’s engineers finding a better compromise than anyone else – nothing, that is, except a little problem called Alfa Romeo, and thus by implication, Fiat management.

Excuse me – the following is a little long-winded, but it’s important. You can understand the Fiat point of view. Fiat are clearly defined – family-orientated, bread-and-butter cars. Ferrari is also equally definable – fast supercars. Maserati is a little more difficult, but under Ferrari ownership it has found itself a comfortable little niche – manufacturers of fast, elegant GTs. The 4200GT Coupe and Spyder are Jaguar rivals rather than Ferrari ones. It’s not what Maserati have always made – the Bora and Merak in particular are some of the most beautiful supercars – but there is a recognisable nod to their heritage. The original Quattroporte is evoked by the new one, and that encompasses more than 40 years of Maserati history. The MC-12 is simply a homologation special, so we’ll leave that to one side. Similarly, the Mexico and Ghibli are echoed in the GT characteristics of the 4200. We’ll just gloss over the Biturbo era (and yes, Randy, I know you own one.)

But Alfa and Lancia? Now that is a problem. We currently have Ferrari doing F1, Maserati doing sportscars, Alfa doing touring cars and Fiat doing a spot of (non-official) rallying, via N-Technology, with a view to a full entry when their finances improve. Lancia has, at one time or another, done all of the above, bar touring cars (in which, frankly, it’s not missing much). But apart from rallying, you don’t immediately think of Lancia when you think of any of those competition categories. Ferrari, clearly, are not going anywhere from their involvement any time soon, and nor should they – it’s much of what the Ferrari myth is built upon. Maserati have just embarked on their sportscar programme, and it should be a useful image-booster, especially against Bentley and its cheap(ish) new GT Coupe. Alfa are heavily committed to touring cars. What is there for Lancia to promote its image?

I would love to see Lancia return to rallying, with the new Fulvia. That would be a dream come true. But the problem is the same as that which led to them withdrawing in the first place. Fiat suits felt that rallying’s yucky, muddy image was not appropriate for a luxury car manufacturer and that was that.

The inherent problem is that Lancia means a lot of different things to different people. Young ‘uns remember the Integrale flogging the opposition on the special stages. Slightly older people remember the Stratos doing the same. But what of the Beta Montecarlo’s run on the endurance circuit, and after that, the LC1 and LC2? Plus there are people who remember the D24 sports-racers, and the D50 F1 programme. The constant, before Fiat ownership anyway, is that the cars were proper driver’s cars, technically innovative.

But there isn’t something concrete to hold onto, to really say, this is a Lancia trait, as distinct from anything else. You can say that about Ferrari, or Fiat. If you say Ferrari in the context of road cars, it’s easy – outrageously quick, stunning-looking supercars. Same with Fiat – cute baby cars, functional family cars with a twist of Italian flair. What can you say about Lancia? High-quality, elegant luxury cars, sure, but luxury cars which cater to the keen driver. I keep coming back to this because it’s important – it’s what sets Lancias apart. Otherwise, why not just buy a Mercedes?

Now, let me say here that I am a progressive. I am of the belief that any enterprise needs to move with the times. This is not to say that Lancia, for example, should have abandoned its goals of building the least-compromised cars possible, or that it should have abandoned its general market area of elegant luxury, but it should be open to new market areas – and if they suit its traditional image, it should jump at the chance. That’s my major qualm with the new Fulvia, and retro generally – design should look forward, not over its shoulder, and the Fulvia is, as much as I like it, a throwback to the sixties. Why not a matt aluminium dashboard, for example? You got the sense, somehow, that the wood dashboard was a very conscious nod to the original, because it was there. Bad thing.

With the Beta, the first car developed under Fiat, Lancia plunged into a new era. Let me say here that I believe the Beta was exactly the right car at the right time. Leaving to one side the sometime-electrical gremlins and other little mechanical problems, the Beta bristled with technical innovation worthy of the Lancia name. The rear suspension design, by Camuffo, was so good that if you look under the rear of anything from a 156 to a Subaru Impreza you will find a derivative of that same suspension. The Lampredi twin-cam is a masterpiece and was miles ahead of most engines in production at the time in terms of sophistication. So what if it’s based on a Fiat block? That Fiat engine was one of the best in the world at the time, and by the time Lancia was finished, they had improved it and only the block was interchangeable. The styling of the Coupe and HPE (the Berlina was done by Fiat) was stunning, even today it looks good. Road tests commented on the high standard of finish and presentation of the cars, their outstanding dynamics, their great performance. It introduced Lancia to a whole new branch of customers, without losing the marque’s traditional virtues. It was only Lancia’s sense of honour which dealt it a devastating blow. Ever wondered why there aren’t too many Mk1 Golfs remaining? Or why subframes tended to mysteriously dissolve underneath Austin/Morris 1100s?

The Gamma, too, is a proper Lancia. A great device to drive, I’m told, and simply stunning looks. The flat-four also lends it ‘Lancia-ness’.

So, the Beta forged a new path for Lancia – manufacturers of high-class sports saloons, with the Gamma offering a traditional Lancia offering in the executive sector. This is something I am comfortable with. This was, essentially, a new category, invented in the sixties, epitomised by Triumph and BMW (and, for that matter, Alfa). It was a perfect representation of Lancia’s trad attributes in years gone past. It allowed them to keep the all-important element of satisfying keen drivers, but also allowed them to keep the by-now traditional multiple developments on a theme – except that, instead of being built by coachbuilders, they would now be built in-house on a mass-produced scale. The Beta is a case in point – Berlina, Coupe, HPE, Spyder. Lancias have never been designed to appeal to everyone, it’s true, but as long as it didn’t compromise the integrity of the final product, I don’t see harm in chasing after more customers. And the integrity of the Beta wasn’t compromised by trying to widen Lancia’s customer base, simply by using poor-quality steel and some occasionally-disinterested workmanship. But the car itself was a gem.

So, rust debacle apart, everything is fine. Until Fiat buys Alfa, at which point you have two marques competing directly against one another – a lot like Rover vs Triumph in the British Leyland days. Not 100% direct competitors, but close enough that at least one of them has to change direction.

It ended up being Lancia. This goes back to what I was saying before about not having a really distinguishable brand image – what, exactly, did Lancia stand for, in a single phrase? The decision, effectively, made itself, in that Alfa can be summarised in a single phrase – “Sports saloons and sports cars”. For Lancia, too, the decision made itself. If Fiat is bread-and-butter, Alfa sports-oriented, Ferrari supercars and Maserati refined GTs, Lancia is obviously luxury. Easy.

Except that it wasn’t. Defining Lancias simply as ‘luxury’ (and all that that implies – Mercedes-rival, soft suspension, ‘relaxed’ ambience, a loss of an incisive driving experience) missed the point. It took a while but the effects are now clear to see – the eradication of any even reasonably sporting models has reduced Lancia to perhaps its weakest-ever standing amongst the cognescenti. Look at the last Delta HF HPE – why did they not build a replacement? Alan Cooper will back me up when I say that it’s the last gasp of a ‘proper’ Lancia (and that includes the driving experience). It’s no Integrale but it’s still quite fun and can do the ‘prestige’ role quite well. It was a more-than-refreshing antidote to the Germans in any case. Given that Lancia practically invented the sporting hatchback concept with the Beta HPE (the only ‘sports estate’ to look remotely like a hatch) and actually did invent the prestige hatch, with the Delta, I think they have a reasonable claim to be in that market segment.

So let’s look at the current range. The Ypsilon should be an Autobianchi, no question. I can see this working as BMW works with Mini. At least in Australia, there are no stand-alone Mini dealers, only BMW-Mini dealers. Autobianchi could be relaunched in this way. Not all Lancia dealers would have to become Autobianchi dealers, but all Autobianchis would be sold through Lancia outlets. There is a perfect opportunity to do this at the moment, as the Lancia dealer network is being overhauled throughout Europe. There is the other, probably more realistic, possibility that the Fiat Trepiuno, revealed recently in concept form, is launched and directly replaces the Ypsilon. According to press reports, the overall feel of the Trepiuno (which has assorted bits of Panda, Punto and Ypsilon) is “very similar to the wonderful little Lancia”.

The Lancia name should be reserved for Delta-sized and above cars. The Delta has a heritage in the Fulvia, and the Appia before that, so this is justifiable. Relaunch a new Delta. I cannot begin to emphasise how important this is. The Granturismo Stilnovo concept is a fantastic design, everything Lancia should be these days. It is futuristic, elegant and sporty – it is a modern re-interpretation of the Beta HPE. We know Lancia has the engineering capability to rival Europe’s finest – give it a BMW-beating chassis, Fiat engines (Fiat still makes some of the best mass-production engines in the world, especially diesels, so the fact that they are Fiat motors is less important than the fact that they uphold the Lancia tradition of being amongst the best in the world, if not the best), and re-establish Lancia’s brand image. It isn’t clashing with Alfa. As Lancia was repositioned, so Alfa became progressively more prestigious and sporty (despite the switch to front-drive). I’m having a bit of trouble trying to express what the defining Lancia characteristics are, so it’s a good thing the Stilnovo does it so well for me. Even though Audi and BMW are perceived to be direct rivals, and so are BMW and Alfa, I don’t see Alfa and Audi as direct rivals. Despite the best efforts of their engineers, Audis are still supposedly numb to drive, anaesthetised, and they aren’t proper sports saloons. There is a distinct opening here for Lancia to expand into. I don’t think I would find much opposition if I suggest that if an Italian car – any Italian car, except perhaps the original Panda – isn’t uplifting to drive, it’s missing the point of buying one in the first place. By all means, let the Stilnovo be luxurious and elegant inside. By all means, let it have the same futuristic design. But don’t ruin it by giving it soft suspension, in the interests of comfort, and blow another opportunity of seriously re-establishing Lancia’s credibility.

What of the others? To go back to my original point, the Thesis is a great car in the Lancia tradition, bar the missing element of proper driver interaction. Even so, I do wonder whether perhaps it’s better this way. It is, after all, a luxury car, and if the rest of the range fulfils the ‘driver’s car’ brief, it could be left like that without doing much damage to the brand image. After all, an S-Class or an A8 is hardly a Stratos in terms of agility or driver reward either.

The Lybra replacement – think Stilnovo concept, one size bigger. It can even be a rebodied Fiat Large with retuned suspension, for heaven’s sake – just keep in mind the principles of elegance, luxury and sportiness. And build the new Fulvia. Please...

Coupes and convertibles would be nice, but they can wait. This plan is ambitious enough. But, in order to build brand awareness of the ‘new Lancia’, engineer a proper rallying comeback. This image of ‘yukkiness’ is misplaced. Many people seem to have heard of Lancia only because of the Integrale – and they speak of it in reverential tones. The Integrale boosted Lancia’s image immeasurably. It is nonsense, in my view, to say that motorsport success of this magnitude, in any discipline, is detrimental to brand image. Yet this was the line pedalled by Fiat management.

My apologies for the length...

[alan cooper]

yes I can back up the thoughts on the delta hpe why it failed to sell better I really don't know. It is much nicer finished than the alfa 145 of the same era drives really brilliantly and looks the business (even now nearly 5 years after they stopped making it). I've been looking for a new everyday car recently and my impression with all of them was that they were not as nice inside as the delta, unfortunately this also applied to the fiat stilo, Idea and punto and in particular the stilos steering was so remote from the road I found it hard to believe that it was mechanically connected at all. Alfas aren't practical as they're too expensive to run so I've ended up ordering my first non-italian car in many years. Maybe if i could have got a rhd ypsilon or musa the result might have been different (??)

[Randy Adams]

I agree that the common ownership of Alfa and Lancia is bad news for Lancia. To be frank, I didn't expect the Lancia name to survive this long after Fiat's acquisition of Alfa, which is better known in more markets and which loosely draws its sales from the same pool of buyers. Of course, I hadn't factored in Fiat's incredible incompetence that induced them to withdraw Alfa from the U.S. market where it had been consistently sold and had a loyal following (even buying the large expensive front-drive 164) ever since the end of WWII.

As I see it, the folks who bought Alfas were after a more brutally sporting type of car. Alfas were generally not very subtle. The folks who bought Lancias sought a combination of sporting character, finesse, understatement and very well-made mechanicals. Lancias were seldom as fast as Alfas, but they were still among the quicker cars especially from point A to point B and they were known to last longer than Alfas. They were much more likely to bristle with new engineering ideas, whereas Alfa tended to refine and repackage the same mechanical concept for very long periods of time. I would bet that the average educational level of Lancia buyers was a bit higher than Alfa buyers. But these distinctions between Lancia and Alfa are too fine to be maintained when both have a common owner and share many mechanical components.

I'm glad to hear that there is something to recommend the Thesis. Obviously I haven't driven it. It just didn't look very graceful on the couple of occasions that I saw one and if I remember correctly it doesn't even have an Italian engine. Is this correct?

I agree that Fiat's range of cars works out pretty well as a sort of Italian General Motors until we get to Lancia. In my view, Maserati is making the sort of cars that Lancia should have been doing at the top end of its range. If they were built in Lancia's more efficient factory in serious numbers, their prices could come down to an appropriate top-of-the-line Lancia level. The lower level Lancias overlap far too much with the Alfa models and in order to create a distinction, Fiat seems to have decided that Lancias will be the dull looking cars (apparently confusing "understatement" with blandness).

Btw, you can't offend with any dismissive remarks about the Biturbo. I am well acquainted with its bizarre combination of brilliance (power/weight ratio, brakes, seats, engine) and breathtaking incompetence (choice of materials, mounting of the steering rack, electrical system including the incredible self-destructing fusebox, dire BMW-inspired rear suspension, and that damned rain gutter that ends by closing up against the body thereby trapping all of the water against the metal and ensuring a universal rust problem). But, by God, you never forget for a minute that it is Italian!

[Huib Geurink]

Some years ago there was an Italian series on TV about the mafia in the fifties. The Italian producers had it just right. The bad guys were driving Alfa Romeo's, the police Fiat's and the good guys and nobility Lancia's.

There is more to it than just buying a car. La Lancia è uno stile di vita.

Non-italians (also called barbarians for the last 2000 years) may not have the feeling. I bet every Italian does.

[GWB]

The engines available in the Lancia Thesis are all Italian: The 2.0 turbosoft is a modification of the 2.0 turbo engine found in the former Kappa and in the Coupé Fiat, and 2.4 is also well known from the Kappa. The 2.4 jtd is seen in the Lancia Lybra and the Alfa 156 as well, the 2.4 multijet diesel engines is basically the the same with an improved injection. Finally the 3.0 and 3.2 V6 engines are used in the Alfa 166.
The skyhook suspension gives a very good road hold, of course with the limitations of a big heavy engine sitting in front of the wheels. Over all I would judge the Thesis being a Flaminia successor.
Recently I have driven a 2.4 gas engined model: The 6-speed gearbox is among the finest of its kind, the interior is very comfortable and relaxing, and is is a real driver's car, a "granturismo" in the best sense of its word, despite the engine being a bit sluggish. The same day I had the opportunity for a short ride in a 3.0 V6, which in my feelings is a better engine for this car. I'm going to test the 2.4 jtd engine on this car the next time.
I doubt if Lancia will sell enough cars in the RHD market, especially Britain, because it is off the market for quite a time, and what remained in people's mind was not the best image. The image is much better in markets like the US, where cars like the Lybra or the Thesis would sell quite well — recently a person from Canada had a ride in my Lybra, and stated that he had heard a lot of Lancia being a great brand, and found himself very satisfied.
Cheers
GWB