Fiat Top Manager is killing Lancia !!!!! IMPORTANT !

[Ryan]

I think that Lancia can be better than Mercedes WITHOUT Mercedes.
It was better in the past, it can be better again.

Mercedes begins lately to follow BMW and the Japanese, so they
have lost their originality anyway. More time spent to try and fix
their new friends at Chrysler. Though, hope that this doesn't end
up destroying the old company...

[Dakis]

hello,

first excuse my poor english, i hope you understand the way i think.
i am sure huib is a lancista with great(est) expierience- reading huibs comments
i think i see a real lancista who is disappointed with fiat because fiat
almost never had lancia in this level, lancias fame would be worth it.
and thatswhy there is not only disappointment but really pitty and
a little pessimistic touch in the words.
dont forget that all goods are produced first for the home market and after
then for other markets.
what i want to say: italian cars are first made according to "italian automobile
psychology" the same thing is with german cars for german aesthetics or
american cars or japanese.
in america you have big roads, cheap fuel, large cars, in germany good roads and
people having a lot of money to spend for good cars (germany is-despite to
other thoughts and roumors- one of the more expensive country to buy a car),
and as german life is organized and disciplined so they want the cars,
and finally italy is is poorer country (compared with america/germany)
with old cities and little roads inside them (thatswhy the tendency to make
compact cars with very good use of inside capacity)
wonderful architecture and design, this reflects in the cars they built.
on the other hand the italian psychology is that it is more important what you see
(outside shape) than what is behind (inside,f.e.electronics )
and the whole life in southern europe is a real theatre, so the cars are in the same
way.
and finally dont forget that southern europe is different in climatological way:
it is no surprise that rust oder electronic problems are less common for
lancias driven in southern europe compared with cars in northern europe.
for example in greece, and greece is the best export market for lancia,
as percentage, there is a quite good fame for lancia (and alfa) and there are
a lot of lancia dedra, prisma, even fulvia or alfa 33,alfasud without rust
problems.

I am not afraid of Lancia as a part of a big manufacturer, like beeing only a little
part of a hyper-market. thats the way it is in todays business. but the point
is that lancia should have the exclusive corner of the hypermarket it deserves
and fiat should be aware what the goal and the aim is.
for example, i think the light retro-lybra is good, why not design a nice
lybra coupe ? and combine the sportiveness with luxury or redesign the fulvia,
doing the same like others with mini/beetle etc. instead of trying to make a lancia thesis a new mercedes, no one will accept, forgetting the C segment (delta)
or they could make a bigger 5-door Ypsilon, why not ? better than nothing,
(well, in one way i can understand that they want to built the italian mercedes.
they need at least one italian big limousine and there is no one other to make
something like this)
do you really belive that fiats decision on the one hand to give more space to
alfa romeo but on the other hand to keep lancia with fiat could mean the beginning
of the solw end for lancia, like other italian before ? (autobianchi,abarth)
hope that they find a solution, its achievable, look at volkswagen. nobody
wants to close down audi, although threre are vw,audi and seat and skoda.

cordial regards to you all ,Dakis

[Ryan]

I think they are putting Lancia together with Fiat now for the sake of economies of scale, since Lancia is "recovering". Alfa is flying now, so it makes sense to put her on her own.

I think that if in 3-5 years, if Lancia can start to really move, she will also be free. This makes sense as an ultimate goal. Or, on the other side, Fiat Group may be trying to follow the model of Toyota/Lexus. Fiat being economical, fun cars, and Lancia being the luxury arm.. trying to compete against Mercedes/Lexus, etc. Alfa has their heart ready to fight the BMWs and show who is really the boss. :}

I think that with some time, Lancia will be fantastic. I hope. :}
Everyone must admit, that FINALLY, Fiat is beginning to realize the real soul of Lancia. I absolutely loved the Delta Integrale Evoluzione.. but I realized, with help from Huib, that this is not a Lancia.. as Mr. Lancia wants Lancia.

Viva Lancia? Forza Lancia!

Ryan

ps. I think Italian design has concentrated on the interior too. Italian interior design for cars has been ok, not perfect.. but the design of even a quirkly Alfa 75 feels better than any Japanese/American interior..

pps. what is the most popular Lancia in Greece now? Y and Lybra?

[Bert Ewalds]

Why care of Lancia remaining in Italian hands when the whole of Fiat cars is already controlled by US General Motors?

[Ryan]

Bert,

I'd like to know how you came up with that conclusion?

"cars is already controlled by US General Motors"

That is definitely not true, lets stick with facts here.

Ryan

[Dakis]

...well,i hope you are right and things will get better for lancia in the next years.

in greece, without having exact statistics to report, i think lybra is more popular
than ypsilon. (ypsilon is older and more for women concetrate on ypsilon-but there
are a lot of other cars in the same class: greek woman prefer a lot of french
cars in this class)
on the other hand, lancia has not the best but a quite good image in the
c and d segment. (delta 1,4 , dedra 1,6 and lybra 1,6 today)

[Brian Hilton]

While I agree with a lot of which has been said under this subject I would like to point out that no matter how much Lancisti bitch about the current models or whether or not they are " Euro Boxes" if we don't buy these models then their is no doubt that the Lancia name will Die.

We currently run Y Elefantino Rosso which I personally imported from Rotterdam to England & as a modern small hatchback it has a lot going for it compared to other manufacturers Euro boxes.

We are on our third Dedra 2.0ie and having driven these for about 200,000 Miles in total. I do not agree it is unispiring car or with all the other similar derogatory comments that are made, they have given good service, the engine is great and I think as long as you don't try to drive it like an Integrale the dynamics aren't that bad (sorry Alan).

Our other car is a 1966 Fulia 2c Berlina which I love and has me heading for bankruptcy, spending more money that is is physically worth but I certainly wouldn't want to drive it every day on our congested diabolical roads!

we have also had various other Lancia from Delta onwards over the last nine years.

But one thing I will say to all our Lancisti friends in Europe, just wait until you have been really screwed by Fiat as we have been and then you might appreciate what it is like not to be able to buy a Lancia even if it is a Euro Box.

[Alan Cooper]

yes brian but you must admit that the fulvia handles much better than a dedra........

[Mike DeRienzo]

I am replying to this long and tiring thread because I have not read anything has about the "death" of Lancia as occured in the US in 1982.(and latter Fiat)

I had always wanted a Fiat, partly because of my Italiian heritage. Instead I was lucky enough to find a Lancia that I could afford (a 77 Beta sedan driven by the dealer owner with a warranty extended). This car would be used to pick up a friend whose SAAB had died across town. This fellow a couple of years earlier had sued Fiat for a lemon 131 sedan he had purchased.

I traded this 77 with fewer miles than any other car I have ever owned - even British cars. It was rusting severely. I traded it to the same dealer for a close-out 81 Beta Coupe. They said that my trade was in really good condition(?).

The closeout cars (81s and 82s, the 82s were only Zagatos). There were a couple of acres of Lancias in a warehouse - these were purchased for closeout sale by a Columbus, OHIO discount retailer (the same group that did Fiat later and Delorean!another story).

Some "enthusiast" magazines in the US called the Beta a badge engineered Fiat - how ignorant! I saw the fiat engine as an easier to maintain (cheaper) adequate power plant.

My Lancias were dependable - the 81 was greatly improved for rust resistance. The electrics in the 77 were at times glitchy because of the many relays - so were Audi,SAAB and other socalled quality cars. Most of the components that have failed on my 81 have been german.

Of course now it is down because of distributor problems - broken centrifugal weights - my wonderful son has gotten that car back on the road after 7 years of sitting because of a stuck transmission (linkage).

Enough!!

[Huib Geurink]

If you mention Alfa copying the Flaminia, you perhaps mean the rear mounted transaxle.
This is a Lancia patent of 1917 (I repeat 1917). It was mounted on some cars then. On the Aurelia it became standard and was carried over to the Flaminia.
I think the patent expired after 50 years, thus in 1967. Alfa Romeo and Maserati then used it too.
Note that the patent was only for Europe. There was an American car maker who also used the idea. I forgot the name, but will look it up.