Lovely Series 1 1600HF up for auction

[Christopher Adams]

I went to the Sydney Motor Show last night, amongst an interesting collection of classic cars that are up for auction this weekend was this HF. It is in immaculate condition, although I don't know if the yellow colour is my favourite.

Tony who posts on here sometimes should be able to tell us more about it, the guy I spoke to at the show said Tony had taken it for a drive.

Chris

http://www.shannons.com.au/pages/auctio ... QYEKA955K2#

[neil cundy]

Looks very nice - there seems to be a bit of a glut of Fanalone's for sale at the moment, I know of three in France, one in Italy (ex-Jolly) and one in UK. AUS 60k seems very resonable for a car that has been fully restored, certainly alot less than the cost. It would seem from the pictures to be the best of the lot.

[william vd Sman]

I really do nut understand the pricing of Fanalones compaired to the 'lesser' HF's 1.2 1.3
The competition results are better than the 1200 and 1300 and the fanalones are faster but the price asked for these cars and definately their 1600 engine parts are Porsche territory were these cars do not belong. Almost everything except the wishbones (negative camber) and the engine/gearbox is the same as the 1.2 and 1.3. which struggle to fetch less than half the price asked for their bigger brother.

[neil cundy]

Yep, you are right. But it seems that people will always pay a seemingly non-liner premium for the top end car of any range especially if it has a competion pedegree. If you think the Fulvia price differentials are large, spare a thought for the Alfa GTV owner who wants a GTA, or the Escort owner who wants an RS1600!!
I think one of the main reasons is the current view that cars are good investments for cash, and the growing popularity of historic rallying. The top range cars from the 60's that can get the FIA ticket (and will be competitive which a Fanalone will be) have crossed the marketing boundry from interesting only to the marque enthusiastic, to being interesting to the collector of rally cars and the person who wants a competitive historic rally car. The Fanalone, amoungst other such cars is now exposed to three market sectors, and people in the latter two have much more money than those in the first. So a scarce resource, three competitive people chasing each one (two with money) = disproportionately higher prices. Additionally these are purchases made with the heart not the head, so any relative intrinsic value comparisons go out of the window.
Having said that Richard Thorne supposedly sold a s2 1600 for £18,000 not long ago, and there are Fanalones are around at that type of price - so maybe (?) things aren't as far apart - but I doubt it !!!

[Christopher Adams]

The Auction is on Sunday, I will let you know what price it achieves. There are a few Right Hand Drive Fanalones over here, but they must be a minority of the total production number, RHD certainly adds to the appeal over here.

I went for a ride in another Fanalone here a couple of months ago that was tidy, but not as good as the yellow one. The owner was looking to sell for Aus$35,000.00. Unfortunately I was not in a position to purchase it. Given how long the restoration of my series 2 1.3s has taken, and how much money it has sucked up, a Fanalone at that price would be tempting because it will always be more valuable, not to mention the fact that it was incredibly quick.

[william vd Sman]

The problem with this outragious pricing difference between the Fanalone and the normal coupe's and the fact that 80% parts are shared is that it is very tempting to make replicas and that is exactly what happens.
Alfa GTA is aluminum. Not very easy to fake. HFs have the body of the normal 1.3 coupe only modified to carry Zagato made HF bucketseats on typical sloped runners. A lot of the so called group 4 cars are group 4 because original parts were missing and it was easier and cheaper to install aftermarket competition parts. Same happens with the Fulvia Zagato competitione were a normal Zagato fetches 10.000 euro a competitione will fetch 6 to 7 times that amount. Some competitiones are missing for years but will undoubtedly surface in the future...

[neil cundy]

This is a fair point but whilst it would be relatively easy to make a Fanalone look alike which could catchout the unwary - the major issue being putting the transmission tunnel in - where would you get a piggy back gearbox, or a back axle, or an S1 1600 engine all of which would be very easy to spot to the initiated.
Don't misunderstand me - I share some of your frustrations as I am restoring a Fanalone and am amazed at the increase in prices for certain items in the last 18 months - hopefully I won't need any of them. Maybe rather than this issue leading to a presumption that Fanalones are expensive it actually demonstrates what tremendous value 1.3 cars are, and as Christopher rightly says there is very little difference between the restoration cost of a 1.3 and a Fanalone -and that cost is close to the selling price of the Fanalone mentioned, as I now know : ).
Replicas of the top end cars will always be a problem - personally I have no problem with this as long as they are sold as such with no attempt at deceit, not always the case I know
I have found that if I am patient and look hard it is possible to get cars which are no where near the prices quoted, and also the parts - but if you want one immediately you will always pay top doller. Interestingly most of the top prices for Fanalones and associated parts are on e-bay and they invariable never sell - so maybe we are allowing the market to confuse us between advertised price and selling price?

[william vd Sman]

Fanalones are probably harder to copy as the 1300HF. HF1.3 shares even more parts with the normal coupe.
I have been many times to Imola were every year a supersize auto jumble is organised. years ago it was entirely possible to find a bargain as I once found an NOS 1300HF head for 250000lit. About 130 euro... The seller believed it was a berlina head.
Today many vendors selling an ordinairy SI 1300 ralley head try to sell it as a HF1200 part because 818.140 is cast on the front... This is illustrating the dollar signs develloping in the classic Lancia parts world.
Parts wise the letters HF are nowadays what GTA is for Alfa. Although even if Fanalones are priced completely over the top, compaired to the GTA they are still very cheap.

[Christopher Adams]

I didn't attend the auction, but called to see what the sale price was. It did not sell and was bid to 'high $40,000's ' before being passed in.

I think for around the low $50's it would be a good buy.

Chris

[Paul Duncan]

I was lucky enough to get across to Sydney from NZ for the weekend and see the show and this fantastic little car. It truely is a work of art and beautifully restored, I can imagine it rolling off the production line.