S2 5 speed in an S1 body?

[Peter Cripps]

Sorry for the duplicate posts. I can't find any way to delete the ones I don't want.

Here's the text with the correct picture #2 ...

Here are a couple of pictures taken from underneath my Fulvia. The first shows the back of the gearbox, looking towards the front of the car:



This next one shows the greabox remote control extension disappearing into a hole:



Inside the car, everything the gear lever, trim, rubber boot, etc., looks like what I see in pictures of S2 Fulvias.

I've been puzzled by this for some time. The S2 manual says I can access a grease nipple at the rear of the remote extension from under the car. Clearly I can't do that!

I think this is because the body is S1, but has been modifed to take the S2 gearbox?

Peter

[neil]

Reply to right one now ! I have never seen anything like that before ! It looks like someone has taken a S2/3 interior tunnel and put it over the top of an S1 transmission "bump" inside the cabin - then cut the S1 hole to suit on the underside. On a S2/3 the underside of the tunnel is completely open for the length of the tunnel - I guess this was too much surgery to be done ?
Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to change the bodyshell to "quasi" S2 - moving indicators, lights and front panel and installing an S3 interior- why ?

[Peter Cripps]

Yes, sorry about the multiple-post confusion.

The inside looks like this:



If you remove the plastic cover you can then see the top of the tunnel. Next time I'm in there I'll pull up the padding on the floor to see how well (or badly) this has been attached to the original floor.

I presume that someone in the past had an S1 body and wanted the S2 engine, 5 speed transmission, Superduplex brakes, etc. They kept the aluminium hood/bonnet and trunk/boot, also the rear axle with Dunlop brakes. As you say, Neil, a lot of trouble, and I so can't really understand why they didn't modify the floorpan as well. Not sure how I'll go about dropping the gearbox if I ever need to do that ... maybe disconnect the remote control extension first.

Fortunately I didn't pay 'unmolested orignal' money for the car ... and now I've fixed various mechanical problems it does drive very well.

Thanks for your comments and analysis!

Peter

[P. de R. Leclercq]

Extraordinary!

The interior as shown I would identify as S3 - only these had the little gearbox "map", because they were fitted with a horrid wooden gear-lever knob that did not carry the positions on the top.

As Neil says, someone has "updated" the car.

On my own special based on a 1967 coupé, I removed the original housing and welded in the tunnel from my written-off S3 so that I could use the 5-speed. It would never have occurred to me to weld the tunnel on top of the old one I must say. I have seen S1s fitted with five-speeds where the extension simply lives inside the car.

Paul

[Huib]

I think it is also possible to shorten the S2/3 mechanism and use the long S1 stick on a 5 spead gearbox mounted in an S1 body. I have never tried it as I prefer the 4 speed gearboxes.

I think the change to 5 speed gearbox and to the short upright stick had their own reasons. It is said that the primary job of Munari's navigator was to hold the long S1 stick in 3rd to prevent it from falling out of gear.

[P. de R. Leclercq]

I think that the mod you describe, Huib would be difficult - certainly on an S2 casting as the top is so different. I think that it could possibly be done on a "piggy-back" Fanalone gearbox though.

Presumably you were referring to Munai's efforts in a 1.3HF as the the 1.6s had the short lever, different but not much, from the S2s.

I did consider using a four-speed box in my own car, but I would need to find a Fanalone extension for it as I couldn't live with the long lever - and anyway it wouldn't fit the (modified) body.

The four speed, although having inferior synchromesh, is lighter and absorbs less power than the five-speed.

Paul

[Huib]

The mod to fit the long lever on the S2 gearbox would be to cut the aluminium tube (and the shaft through it) in half or rather in 3 sections, throw away the center section and weld the outer sections together. And of course transplant the bottom part of the lever.

You are right. This was Munari on the 1.3HF. I presume also on the 1.2HF and the 1.4HF

On the factory assembled S1 gearboxes the synchromeshes are not that good. I assemble them differently. As a result the S1 gearboxes shift quite a bit better.

[P. de R. Leclercq]

Yes,

Of course on my own Fulvia, I added an extra piece to the extension (and obviously lengthened the interior piece) so that I could have a short lever and quicker change. Later I replaced the ridiculous solid lump of steel that FIAT/Lancia deemed necessary, with a piece of tube which saves a bit of weight. As the nylon bushing was worn out where the ball is on the lever, we made up a couple of brass cups that are pressed into the yoke, which has given me a delightfully positive gearchange.

Paul

[Peter Cripps]

Follow up -- I removed the tunnel trim cover, and took out all the carpets and padding. Sure enough, the S2 tunnel is welded to the floor, over the S1 bulge. The welds are not continuous, just a few spots here and there, so perhaps whoever did the modifications decided not to weaken the floor by cutting out a section under the S2 tunnel.

Needless to say, I would be happier if they had done a proper job. Oh well.

Peter

[P. de R. Leclercq]

I think that a floor with an S2 tunnel would be stronger - greater longtitudinal triangulation. I always wanted to join the back of mine to the handbrake tunnel to stiffen the floor further, but never got around to it.

Paul