Caster, camber and toe

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Peter Cripps

Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Peter Cripps »

I'm considering buying a Fulvia coupe that's for sale locally. On a test drive, there was little or no self-centering action on the steering, and also a slight pull to the right. Looking at the front suspension, I couldn't immediately see any way to adjust caster ... just wondering how this is done?

Thanks,

Peter
Huib

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Huib »

Caster is not adjustable. At least not in an easy way. This also means it cannot have been adjusted wrongly.
What could have happened is that someone forgot to install one of the 3mm thick washers if it is an S1 or early S2 car.

It should have a toe out of 1 to 3 mm measured on 14" rims
Peter Cripps

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Peter Cripps »

Huib,

Many thanks for your quick reply!

I saw the car again today, and decided to jack up both front wheels off the ground. Steering was still stiff, so I concluded that it's a problem with the steering box and/or idler, rather than with caster geometry.

Am I correct to assume that camber is fixed as well? In other words, the only geometry adjustment is toe?
Thanks again

Peter
Huib

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Huib »

Camber is fixed too. Always keep an eye open for assembly errors though. A lot may have happened with a car that is 30 to 40 years old.

The only adjustment is toe. It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that this is done with the steering box in ITS CENTER POSITION.

Note that checking for the center position by turning the steering wheel from stop to stop is not full proof. There are bolts on the aluminium towers that limit the angle. The adjustments may be unequal.

The short shaft sticking out of the steering box has a flat side. The steering boxes I have seen so far where in the center position when this flat side was at half past eleven looking from the drivers seat. On series one Fulvia's the cross formed by the bolts fixing the canvas link is then exactly horizontal / vertical.

If the steering box is in the center position, the steering wheel should be horizontal. If not, make sure it is.

Then adjust toe out and make sure the car runs straight with the steering wheel horizontal, thus the steering box in the center position.

With the wheels straight and the steering wheel horizontal adjust the play of steering box with the adjust bolt at the top. Screw it in till its stop, then back off 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn. If there is no hard stop, there is play on the needle and the roller bearings inside the box or too much wear on worm and / or roller. Double check the adjustment by jacking up the front and turn the wheels from left to right with the steering wheel, there should be no hard point nor hard section near the center. Another way of adjusting is to turn in the bolt till you feel the hard point and then back off till it is gone.

Quite often the heavy stearing and lack of self centering is in the suspension ball joints as well as in the steering ball joints, but I have also seen idler boxes that had seized completely. Best change all the ball joints if in doubt. Note that some years ago a bad batch of FRAP ball joints came onto the market. I was happy if they lasted 3000kms. Some failed after 200 kms. You want to make sure you get recent production. After we spoke to Mr FRAP, the quality went up considerably.
Peter Cripps

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Peter Cripps »

Thanks again, Huib.

I have decided to buy the coupe, and will be picking it up shortly. Then will begin the voyage of exploration to discover the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have a feeling my name will be appearing on this section of the Forum quite frequently!

Peter
Huib

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Huib »

For the persistent there is only good in the end.
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Caster, camber and toe

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Good luck with the Fulvia; they are wonderful.

As always, Huib has provided excellent advice. The only thing I would add is that I prefer to run the toe closer to parallel - say 0.5mm out, or even zero - i.e. parallel. Whilst this makes the car a little more "nervous" as Mr Van Wernink would say, I like the sharpness of response that it provides.

Best of luck

Paul
Bart

Re: Caster, camber and toe/ rear axle

Unread post by Bart »

Paul,

Have you ever tried/considered bending the back axle to create camber?
Bart
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Caster, camber and toe/ rear axle

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Hello Bart.

No I haven't.

However I have considered modifications to reduce the toe as this would improve turn-in although make the car more nervous and less stable in cross-winds.

It would also improve top speed!

Too bloody difficult though.

Paul
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