We are two friends which have 2 Fulvias HF 2º Series, one of them has positive chamber in the front wheels and the other not. We have checked the length of the front wheels suspension arms in both cars, but they are the same, and the steering systems apparently do not have any adjustment possibility.
Could any one let us know how we could increase the camber of the second HF ??.
Best regards,
Pedro
FULVIA HF CHAMBER REGULATION
-
giancarlo
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
The Fulvias' camber is not adjustable and the only way to set it is through the suspension arms.
Front camber on 1.6 Fulvias (818540,818740 and 818750) shall be negative (-1 deg) , while all other models have a +2 deg. The 1.6 suspension arms have different lenghts (upper is 1.5 mm shorter, lower is 7.85 mm longer) and shall have "540" markings. The 1.6 arms are also shaped to ensure an increased incidence angle of +3.5 deg. (1.3 second series have 2.5 deg while others have about 1 deg). All these data can be found in the Fulvia CDs distributed by this site.
If your HF(are you sure it is a true original 818740 model?) has a positive camber there is something wrong, the most likely being non "540" arms.
As it is not easy to accurately measure the arm span, you should rather look for the "540" marking that in the lower arms is between the two screws fixing the anti-roll bar and in the upper ones is on the top of the ball joint receptacle (you might have to scratch some dirt and/or paint).
It is not recommended to exchange arms between different models' as there are implications in the steering.
Hope this will help yuor troubleshooting.
Bye
Giancarlo
Front camber on 1.6 Fulvias (818540,818740 and 818750) shall be negative (-1 deg) , while all other models have a +2 deg. The 1.6 suspension arms have different lenghts (upper is 1.5 mm shorter, lower is 7.85 mm longer) and shall have "540" markings. The 1.6 arms are also shaped to ensure an increased incidence angle of +3.5 deg. (1.3 second series have 2.5 deg while others have about 1 deg). All these data can be found in the Fulvia CDs distributed by this site.
If your HF(are you sure it is a true original 818740 model?) has a positive camber there is something wrong, the most likely being non "540" arms.
As it is not easy to accurately measure the arm span, you should rather look for the "540" marking that in the lower arms is between the two screws fixing the anti-roll bar and in the upper ones is on the top of the ball joint receptacle (you might have to scratch some dirt and/or paint).
It is not recommended to exchange arms between different models' as there are implications in the steering.
Hope this will help yuor troubleshooting.
Bye
Giancarlo
-
Pedro
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
Thank you very much Giancarlo for the information and for your quick answer. I am going to order one of those CD that you mention.
Yes the HF with the positive camber is original ( we also have the original Italian papers ) but it have been rallied in Italy and the suspensions have been modified ( we already have change back to original the rear suspension ).
According to your answer if we would like to change the camber of the other HF we should change the suspension arms. Our objective is to gain just a little bit of camber ( 1 to 2 degrees )
. Should we change both 540 arms ( upper & lower ) by the ones of the 1.3 S or Monte Carlo models, or if we only change the lower arms will be enough ?.
I look forward for your answer with great interest.
Regards Pedro .
Yes the HF with the positive camber is original ( we also have the original Italian papers ) but it have been rallied in Italy and the suspensions have been modified ( we already have change back to original the rear suspension ).
According to your answer if we would like to change the camber of the other HF we should change the suspension arms. Our objective is to gain just a little bit of camber ( 1 to 2 degrees )
. Should we change both 540 arms ( upper & lower ) by the ones of the 1.3 S or Monte Carlo models, or if we only change the lower arms will be enough ?.
I look forward for your answer with great interest.
Regards Pedro .
-
giancarlo
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
If I understand correctly you intend to move from a negative to a positive camber. Why to do that?
Fulvia HF 1.6 "SHALL" have a negative camber.
The positive camber was adopted on the 1.2 and 1.3 models in order to allow easy steering for normal city use (including parking) taking also into account that a significant fraction of the market for the coupe' was represented by ladies. This of course at the expenses of the cornering performance. In 1.6 models, more powerful and more oriented to sportive use, the camber was eventually set to a negative value for better performance while larger rims and tyres were also adopted. Together with camber, also incidence was increased while steering box ratio was decreased to provide stronger and more direct steering. These means that suspension arms and all steering elements (main and secondary box, arms,etc..) all go together and you should not change only part of them. Nevertheless, the use of modified or "540" suspension arms (both arms!) on the 1.3 coupe' types is sometimes a practice used by people wishing to improve performance at limited cost.
So, in conclusion, I could understand the wish to put "540" arms on a 1.3 coupe' while I definitely don't recommend you to put 1.3 arms on a 1.6 model.
I hope this clarifies a bit the issue.
Ciao
Giancarlo
P.S. JUST TO AVOID MISUNDERSTANDINGS
Negative camber means the vertical axes of the two wheels meet above the roation axis like (/---\)
Positive camber is the opposite like (\-----/).
Fulvia HF 1.6 "SHALL" have a negative camber.
The positive camber was adopted on the 1.2 and 1.3 models in order to allow easy steering for normal city use (including parking) taking also into account that a significant fraction of the market for the coupe' was represented by ladies. This of course at the expenses of the cornering performance. In 1.6 models, more powerful and more oriented to sportive use, the camber was eventually set to a negative value for better performance while larger rims and tyres were also adopted. Together with camber, also incidence was increased while steering box ratio was decreased to provide stronger and more direct steering. These means that suspension arms and all steering elements (main and secondary box, arms,etc..) all go together and you should not change only part of them. Nevertheless, the use of modified or "540" suspension arms (both arms!) on the 1.3 coupe' types is sometimes a practice used by people wishing to improve performance at limited cost.
So, in conclusion, I could understand the wish to put "540" arms on a 1.3 coupe' while I definitely don't recommend you to put 1.3 arms on a 1.6 model.
I hope this clarifies a bit the issue.
Ciao
Giancarlo
P.S. JUST TO AVOID MISUNDERSTANDINGS
Negative camber means the vertical axes of the two wheels meet above the roation axis like (/---\)
Positive camber is the opposite like (\-----/).
-
Pedro
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
Thank you very much once again Giancarlo, I was mixing both concepts ( I thought that this /---\ was positive ).
So the only way to change the other HF from Positive ( \---/ ) to negative ( /---\ ) is to change both arms to the 540 ones.
Thank you very much for you help, and I wish you all the best.
Un saludo,
Pedro
-
giancarlo
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
Ahah!! I suspected this!
You should also check that the car that you are going to modify with its original arms, has also its original steering box ensemble. You may roughly check this by verifying that end-to-end course takes about 2.5 turns of the steering wheel.
Good luck!
Giancarlo
You should also check that the car that you are going to modify with its original arms, has also its original steering box ensemble. You may roughly check this by verifying that end-to-end course takes about 2.5 turns of the steering wheel.
Good luck!
Giancarlo
-
Pedro
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
Thank you very much once again Giancarlo, we will check it.
You have to be sure that without your help we could not get through this matter.
Ciao,
Pedro
You have to be sure that without your help we could not get through this matter.
Ciao,
Pedro
-
Lucas
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
I thought the turns are 3.5 for an 1.6 and 4.5 for a normal one. On the steering house from an 1.6 is 3.71 stamped.
Lucas
Lucas
-
giancarlo
Re: FULVIA HF CAMBER REGULATION
Yes, you are right. I realise I wrote 2.5 instead of 3.5. Thanks for the correction.
Giancarlo
Giancarlo