I'm a first time classic car buyer - and I just LIKE the Flamina.
I need, however, to know some of the weaknesses of a Lancia Flaminia Touring (if any) in order to inspect carefully before buying. - Appreciate any help.... Thanks
buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
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Randy Adams
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
Jan:
Congratulations on your excellent taste in cars! Of course, I'm biased; I have a number of them.
In looking at a Touring Flaminia, remember that you are buying an aluminum bodied car. This is a relatively fragile body construction which will dent very easily and which requires special expertise to weld. Thus body repairs will set you back more. Also be aware that the aluminum tends to flex more than steel with the result that it is almost a certainty that there will be some cracks in the paint. This often happens just a few years after a good restoration of the body. While aluminum does not rust, it will corrode where it meets the steel that the body is attached to and also in the door frames. Look for this corrosion especially at the bottom of the doors. As convertibles from its era go, the Flaminia is pretty rigid--so you shouldn't have an excessive amount of chassis flex.
The Touring model uses a number of unique trim bits so if any of these are missing, they will be a project to locate and expect to pay some real money. I am referring to the tail lights, bumpers, door handles, and headlight bezels. This also goes for body hardware such as door latches, strikers, window winding mechanisms and top latches. Be gentle on those parts--you don't want to look for replacements. Some other things, such as the parking lights, rear reflectors and license plate light housing, are common to other Lancias and sometimes even other Italian cars.
I have an early single carburetor model. It goes without saying that the later triple Weber equipped car is more desirable as it has 21 extra CUNA bhp and also more torque. However, the Weber carburetors used on this model (35DCNL) are notoriously difficult to find parts for. The single Solex was used in the much higher volume Pininfarina coupe also, with the result that it is usually a much easier carburetor to find parts for. The Touring-bodied car is given very long gear ratios, making the triple Weber beast even more desirable. This is a car that would have benefited greatly from a five speed transaxle as it is not entirely happy in hilly areas due to the relatively tall lower gears. It was designed to cruise at high speed. Top speed is about 112 mph/178 kph for the single carb car and 118 mph/190 kph for the triple Weber. Most desirable of all is the triple Weber equipped 2.8 version. Only 168 of these were made though I imagine some owners have cheated and retrofitted that engine into earlier cars. Top speed increases slightly (120 mph/193 kph) but torque is usefully improved.
All Flaminias are comparatively complex machines, especially when compared to their contemporaries. The Dunlop disc brake setup is very fiddly to get right but when you do, the car stops better than anything else of its era making it a relatively relaxing mode of transport on modern roads. Frustration with malfunctioning brakes sidelined many cars over the years but if you study the manuals carefully and go all the way through the system, you will eventually get a good result. The driveshaft runs at engine speed, as the clutch is in the rear. Because of this, its balance is critical. Many older cars have been fouled up in this regard by bunglers and it can be impressively difficult to get right again. The transaxle is a wonderfully built device with its own oil pump but it does have an Achilles Heel--the stub axles have a tendency to shear off if subjected to unusual stresses. My advice is to take your foot off the gas when traversing a railroad crossing or other similar surface irregularity. I also suspect that this part failed on many cars suffering from dragging brakes--one of the Flaminia's most common brake malfunctions if the brakes are not right. There are two different designs of inboard joints on the rear axles depending upon the vintage of the car. Most of the Touring cars use the later pattern which is easier to maintain because it is filled with grease instead of heavy oil. Check the condition of the rubber boots on these joints as rebuilds can be expensive. The Flaminia uses lots of good old fashioned grease nipples, so you will get well acquainted with maintaining your car--no "sealed for life" bushes here. If a previous owner was really careless, there may be some deterioration due to inadequate greasing. If you hear a rear wheel bearing roaring, this will probably be the reason. The rear bearings are extremely large, hard to come by and expensive when you do find them. I'm told that Cavalitto has them now, but they will set you back some money. The cars came with Lancia designed and built shock absorbers which last an astonishingly long time but by now, of course, many are no longer good. They are fully rebuildable but I am not aware of any spares supplies. As a consequence, we have to make do with other brands which are not as good. The engine is a quite sophisticated aluminum V-6 with hemispherical combustion chambers--much better than its pushrods would suggest. It's relatively tough. The only real weak spot is the valve guides and seals--common for cars of its era. As with any old engine, change the oil and the coolant religiously. If the example you are looking at has low oil pressure, it will be a simple case of a worn-out engine (assuming the oil sender isn't malfunctioning).
In my view, the single weakest point on the Flaminia is its wheels & tires. The cars use 165 x 400 Michelin tube type tires. While the tires themselves are tough and long-lasting, the tubes are not--at least not the ones I've sourced. It's also rather difficult to get a good balance with the tires, tubes and Lancia's heavy steel wheels, hubcaps and trimrings. I believe Lancia had a special balancer that balanced the entire assembly together but you won't find a shop that can do that now. I've also found fewer and fewer tire people who really know how to install tubes correctly--undoubtedly a major source of the problems I've experienced. Some people change the wheels to another size. I don't recommend that because the Lancia wheels/hubcaps/trimrings are so beautiful and complement the Touring body with its large rounded wheel arches so well.
I just drove my convertible last weekend (in sunny Los Angeles) and for the millionth time delighted in its melodious six cylinder sound, excellent placement of the major controls--especially the gear shift--modern handling and modern braking. And when you park the car and walk away from it, just try not to look back at it. It makes everything else on the street look like so many sparrows or mud hens.
Best of luck in your search.
Congratulations on your excellent taste in cars! Of course, I'm biased; I have a number of them.
In looking at a Touring Flaminia, remember that you are buying an aluminum bodied car. This is a relatively fragile body construction which will dent very easily and which requires special expertise to weld. Thus body repairs will set you back more. Also be aware that the aluminum tends to flex more than steel with the result that it is almost a certainty that there will be some cracks in the paint. This often happens just a few years after a good restoration of the body. While aluminum does not rust, it will corrode where it meets the steel that the body is attached to and also in the door frames. Look for this corrosion especially at the bottom of the doors. As convertibles from its era go, the Flaminia is pretty rigid--so you shouldn't have an excessive amount of chassis flex.
The Touring model uses a number of unique trim bits so if any of these are missing, they will be a project to locate and expect to pay some real money. I am referring to the tail lights, bumpers, door handles, and headlight bezels. This also goes for body hardware such as door latches, strikers, window winding mechanisms and top latches. Be gentle on those parts--you don't want to look for replacements. Some other things, such as the parking lights, rear reflectors and license plate light housing, are common to other Lancias and sometimes even other Italian cars.
I have an early single carburetor model. It goes without saying that the later triple Weber equipped car is more desirable as it has 21 extra CUNA bhp and also more torque. However, the Weber carburetors used on this model (35DCNL) are notoriously difficult to find parts for. The single Solex was used in the much higher volume Pininfarina coupe also, with the result that it is usually a much easier carburetor to find parts for. The Touring-bodied car is given very long gear ratios, making the triple Weber beast even more desirable. This is a car that would have benefited greatly from a five speed transaxle as it is not entirely happy in hilly areas due to the relatively tall lower gears. It was designed to cruise at high speed. Top speed is about 112 mph/178 kph for the single carb car and 118 mph/190 kph for the triple Weber. Most desirable of all is the triple Weber equipped 2.8 version. Only 168 of these were made though I imagine some owners have cheated and retrofitted that engine into earlier cars. Top speed increases slightly (120 mph/193 kph) but torque is usefully improved.
All Flaminias are comparatively complex machines, especially when compared to their contemporaries. The Dunlop disc brake setup is very fiddly to get right but when you do, the car stops better than anything else of its era making it a relatively relaxing mode of transport on modern roads. Frustration with malfunctioning brakes sidelined many cars over the years but if you study the manuals carefully and go all the way through the system, you will eventually get a good result. The driveshaft runs at engine speed, as the clutch is in the rear. Because of this, its balance is critical. Many older cars have been fouled up in this regard by bunglers and it can be impressively difficult to get right again. The transaxle is a wonderfully built device with its own oil pump but it does have an Achilles Heel--the stub axles have a tendency to shear off if subjected to unusual stresses. My advice is to take your foot off the gas when traversing a railroad crossing or other similar surface irregularity. I also suspect that this part failed on many cars suffering from dragging brakes--one of the Flaminia's most common brake malfunctions if the brakes are not right. There are two different designs of inboard joints on the rear axles depending upon the vintage of the car. Most of the Touring cars use the later pattern which is easier to maintain because it is filled with grease instead of heavy oil. Check the condition of the rubber boots on these joints as rebuilds can be expensive. The Flaminia uses lots of good old fashioned grease nipples, so you will get well acquainted with maintaining your car--no "sealed for life" bushes here. If a previous owner was really careless, there may be some deterioration due to inadequate greasing. If you hear a rear wheel bearing roaring, this will probably be the reason. The rear bearings are extremely large, hard to come by and expensive when you do find them. I'm told that Cavalitto has them now, but they will set you back some money. The cars came with Lancia designed and built shock absorbers which last an astonishingly long time but by now, of course, many are no longer good. They are fully rebuildable but I am not aware of any spares supplies. As a consequence, we have to make do with other brands which are not as good. The engine is a quite sophisticated aluminum V-6 with hemispherical combustion chambers--much better than its pushrods would suggest. It's relatively tough. The only real weak spot is the valve guides and seals--common for cars of its era. As with any old engine, change the oil and the coolant religiously. If the example you are looking at has low oil pressure, it will be a simple case of a worn-out engine (assuming the oil sender isn't malfunctioning).
In my view, the single weakest point on the Flaminia is its wheels & tires. The cars use 165 x 400 Michelin tube type tires. While the tires themselves are tough and long-lasting, the tubes are not--at least not the ones I've sourced. It's also rather difficult to get a good balance with the tires, tubes and Lancia's heavy steel wheels, hubcaps and trimrings. I believe Lancia had a special balancer that balanced the entire assembly together but you won't find a shop that can do that now. I've also found fewer and fewer tire people who really know how to install tubes correctly--undoubtedly a major source of the problems I've experienced. Some people change the wheels to another size. I don't recommend that because the Lancia wheels/hubcaps/trimrings are so beautiful and complement the Touring body with its large rounded wheel arches so well.
I just drove my convertible last weekend (in sunny Los Angeles) and for the millionth time delighted in its melodious six cylinder sound, excellent placement of the major controls--especially the gear shift--modern handling and modern braking. And when you park the car and walk away from it, just try not to look back at it. It makes everything else on the street look like so many sparrows or mud hens.
Best of luck in your search.
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Sebastien Simon
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
You are a first time classic car buyer and like the Flaminia: congratulations for your good taste!
However, be careful:
Flaminias are rare cars, and the people that know how to care for them are even rarer!
If you want to enjoy your purchase I would suggest following steps:
First get hold of someone who owns or services a Flaminia to help you during the inspection: it can avoid costly mistakes. He can also inform you about Flaminia prices and costs!
Second: make sure you have a good mechanic to work on the car. It helps a lot if he is experienced with italian cars, and Flaminias in particular.
Third: Buy only a car with a very sound body, as a body repair including repaint can easily double the cost of purchase. In fact buy the best Flaminia available (but there are not many cabriolets on the market)
Fourth: Be prepared to spend money in the beginning to do all the small things which need to be done, and which the seller will not mention to you
Fifth: Enjoy your car frequently to keep it in good shape.
However, be careful:
Flaminias are rare cars, and the people that know how to care for them are even rarer!
If you want to enjoy your purchase I would suggest following steps:
First get hold of someone who owns or services a Flaminia to help you during the inspection: it can avoid costly mistakes. He can also inform you about Flaminia prices and costs!
Second: make sure you have a good mechanic to work on the car. It helps a lot if he is experienced with italian cars, and Flaminias in particular.
Third: Buy only a car with a very sound body, as a body repair including repaint can easily double the cost of purchase. In fact buy the best Flaminia available (but there are not many cabriolets on the market)
Fourth: Be prepared to spend money in the beginning to do all the small things which need to be done, and which the seller will not mention to you
Fifth: Enjoy your car frequently to keep it in good shape.
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Bert Ewalds
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
Not much to add to this excellent account
Only, if you live in Europe the tires are not a real problem as they are also mounted on late Citroen
Traction Avants.
A good tireshop can sort all the problems, Mine balanced the front wheels on the car and I am now driving it for the fourth season with absolutely no problems.
Michelin still supplies the tires through its special products department
good luck finding a good car !
And be aware, there are not many cars on the market, but there are not many buyers either !
Bert
Only, if you live in Europe the tires are not a real problem as they are also mounted on late Citroen
Traction Avants.
A good tireshop can sort all the problems, Mine balanced the front wheels on the car and I am now driving it for the fourth season with absolutely no problems.
Michelin still supplies the tires through its special products department
good luck finding a good car !
And be aware, there are not many cars on the market, but there are not many buyers either !
Bert
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Jean deBarsy
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
Congratulations indeed for your good taste in classic cars! The Flaminia is an awesome car, regardless of model or engine size, they're all fabulous cars. There's one thing you need to know... it has to be in perfect condition if you want to experience the Lancia to the fullest! And this is where the difficulty comes in. Rattling around in a tatty Flaminia isn't really the best way to enjoy it...and to get it in very good condition requires skillful attention and knowledge.
Good luck and keep us infomed!
Jean
Good luck and keep us infomed!
Jean
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Geoffrey Goldberg
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
Randy's wonderful comments (and the others as well) are quite true. They are valid for Aurelias, and all the Flaminias. So whatever you do - get the best car you can. Not necessarily the best looker, or the one with "the most $ spent on it", but rather the one best run in and cared for. That will pay off over time in more pleasure and an easier setup for you.
To repeat - getting the niggling little bits is hard, and hard to get right. So find one that has those done, both mechanically, and whatever level of aesthetic pleasure you need, and enjoy for a long time.
Best luck,
Geoff
To repeat - getting the niggling little bits is hard, and hard to get right. So find one that has those done, both mechanically, and whatever level of aesthetic pleasure you need, and enjoy for a long time.
Best luck,
Geoff
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AlbertoRaponi
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
dear, jan
my name is alberto and i agreed with all these gentleman said about the flaminia.
Ihave one, and right now it is in Italy for full resteration, the car is completely done, but expences weren't cheap. this car right now is for sale if you like cantact me you can call me at 978-697-7477 during the evening would be the best time for me. my home phone is 978-475-7535. Also i have a b24 convertible if you are intrested.
sincerly,
Alberto Raponi
my name is alberto and i agreed with all these gentleman said about the flaminia.
Ihave one, and right now it is in Italy for full resteration, the car is completely done, but expences weren't cheap. this car right now is for sale if you like cantact me you can call me at 978-697-7477 during the evening would be the best time for me. my home phone is 978-475-7535. Also i have a b24 convertible if you are intrested.
sincerly,
Alberto Raponi
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Ursula Lindner
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
if someone is interested, we have a Lancia Flaminia Touring Cabriolet 2,8 for sale. Perfect state, and lost of extra's. For further information please contact us. The car is located in The Netherlands
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diederik stevens
Re: buying a Lancia Flaminia touring cabriolet
is de lancia flaminia cabriolet nog te koop?
dank en groet
dank en groet