I have identified the issue with Engine temperature, idling problems and A/C.
In typical Italian fashion, the cooling system of my car only works properly if A/C is ON. As far as I can tell, there's only one big fan, which is responsible for cooling down both radiators (A/C and engine). As a result, today, while I was doing a lot of stop-and-go, but in a decent weather (20 C), I didn't turn A/C on, which resulted in the coolant temperature going all the way to 100C before the fan kicked in.
When I got to work, I did another test, with the car idling and the engine warming up. With A/C off, the fan kicked in when coolant temperature was around 100C and cooled it down to 90C, then stopped. With A/C on, the fan started immediately and kept on running until the coolant temperature was down to about 70C (I turned off the engine at that point).
The idling issue appears to be connected with the A/C. When idling at a traffic light with A/C on, the fan is working, which appears to take a lot of power away from the engine. As a result, when I try to depart, the acceleration is jerky and the engine seems to be struggling in the low rpm's. All these occur as I am running the car on LPG, not benzine, which is known to slightly reduce the performance of any engine.
Question: how can I (I mean, can I do it, with my very basic knowledge, or do I have to take the car to a service) raise the idle frequency from the current 600 rpm to something like 800-900 rpm? I realize it will use a bit more fuel, but I prefer that to my car coughing in the middle of a busy crossroad.
Thanks,
Adrian.
Engine temperature
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Brian Hilton
Re: Engine temperature
Hi Adrian
Don't know an awful lot about Kappa as it was never produced in RHD, or sold in the UK, although a few are here, but, on Thema when the A/C kicks in, the idle speed automaticially adjust to compensate for the greater load so I don't really see that this feature would have been dropped for it's successor.
Just had a look at my Thema series 3 manual which states.
Motronic M 1.7 Injection/ignition system unit.
" Controlling idle speed". "
The adjustment of the idle speed is carried out by means of the special actuator which acts on the butterfly bypass.
This also has the function of an additional air valve & adjuster for engaging the various consumers (e.g. the air conditioning compressor); with the butterfly in the end travel position, the actuator adjusts the opening of the by-pass compensating for the power required by the consumers thereby ensuring as constant as possible idle speed".
"The actuator fitted on this version guarantees a high degree of adjustment response in as far as the opening and closure of the by-pass are both controlled by the magnetic windings"
"In addition the vehicle speed signal is also taken into consideration for the idle stratergy; this is in order to establish whether the vehicle is stationary when idling or moving".
NOTE
"The self adjustment function of the system makes it possible to eliminate all adjustments of the idle speed.
The control unit recognizes the "Butterfly in end of travel" position from the butterfly casing sensor, allowing any possible wear which will in time show up on the butterfly closure position in time to be "Followed".
Connection with A/C compressor.
" the control unit is connected to the A/c system in order to adjust the engine idle speed as the power absorbed increases each time the compressor is switched on."
"If the power requirements are high, the control unit momentarily (7-10 seconds) cuts off the supply to the compressor".
Connection with the Automatic transmission system.
" The control unit adjusts the engine idling speed according to the load conditions when the selector lever is moved to change gear"
Seems to me that if you have the Motronic M.1.7 control system, (or similar) you cannot adjust the idle speed & I believe suggest that perhaps your idle problem lies with the sensor on the butterfly casing?
Have you had a diagnostics check? as that seems like the way forward.
Brian Hilton.
UK
Don't know an awful lot about Kappa as it was never produced in RHD, or sold in the UK, although a few are here, but, on Thema when the A/C kicks in, the idle speed automaticially adjust to compensate for the greater load so I don't really see that this feature would have been dropped for it's successor.
Just had a look at my Thema series 3 manual which states.
Motronic M 1.7 Injection/ignition system unit.
" Controlling idle speed". "
The adjustment of the idle speed is carried out by means of the special actuator which acts on the butterfly bypass.
This also has the function of an additional air valve & adjuster for engaging the various consumers (e.g. the air conditioning compressor); with the butterfly in the end travel position, the actuator adjusts the opening of the by-pass compensating for the power required by the consumers thereby ensuring as constant as possible idle speed".
"The actuator fitted on this version guarantees a high degree of adjustment response in as far as the opening and closure of the by-pass are both controlled by the magnetic windings"
"In addition the vehicle speed signal is also taken into consideration for the idle stratergy; this is in order to establish whether the vehicle is stationary when idling or moving".
NOTE
"The self adjustment function of the system makes it possible to eliminate all adjustments of the idle speed.
The control unit recognizes the "Butterfly in end of travel" position from the butterfly casing sensor, allowing any possible wear which will in time show up on the butterfly closure position in time to be "Followed".
Connection with A/C compressor.
" the control unit is connected to the A/c system in order to adjust the engine idle speed as the power absorbed increases each time the compressor is switched on."
"If the power requirements are high, the control unit momentarily (7-10 seconds) cuts off the supply to the compressor".
Connection with the Automatic transmission system.
" The control unit adjusts the engine idling speed according to the load conditions when the selector lever is moved to change gear"
Seems to me that if you have the Motronic M.1.7 control system, (or similar) you cannot adjust the idle speed & I believe suggest that perhaps your idle problem lies with the sensor on the butterfly casing?
Have you had a diagnostics check? as that seems like the way forward.
Brian Hilton.
UK
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Adrian
Re: Engine temperature
Hi Brian,
Following your advice, I think the next step is to go to the only Fiat dealer in town and have the computer scanned. Thanks!
Following your advice, I think the next step is to go to the only Fiat dealer in town and have the computer scanned. Thanks!
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Adrian
Re: Engine temperature
Adding an unwanted extra to my car trouble, my engine temperature indicator (yes, that's him) has gone AWOL today. I was waiting at a traffic light, noticed the temperature going slightly above the halfway mark (90 deg. C), I turned on the A/C and the needle jumped INSTANTLY to 110 C. The traffic light turned green, I departed normally and after a few seconds the needle dropped INSTANTLY to 70C. The same behavior took place for the rest of the drive, going between the 50C and the 130C mark (yes, the red light also came on). However, when inspecting the engine bay in the parking lot, nothing seemed unusual - the hose going to the expansion tank was pretty hot (as expected, I guess, from a rubber hose where hot water is running through), water level in the expansion tank was OK, oil level on the dipstick was halfway on the flat portion (I guess that's halfway between MIN and MAX).
The erratic behavior of the temperature indicator was gone on the next trip (about 20 km), also on the next one (about 30 km), then showed up as I was approaching home.
What kind of comforts me is the fact that it's most likely a sensor failure, not a more serious one, like head gasket. I've never heard of any car engine capable of instantly heating several liters of water by 30 degrees and nor I've heard of any fan able to instantly cool that water from 130 C to 50 C. Am I right and the temperature sensor should be replaced? The strange fact is that this behavior only occurs from time to time, not all the time. Would a computer scan detect this potential problem as well?
The erratic behavior of the temperature indicator was gone on the next trip (about 20 km), also on the next one (about 30 km), then showed up as I was approaching home.
What kind of comforts me is the fact that it's most likely a sensor failure, not a more serious one, like head gasket. I've never heard of any car engine capable of instantly heating several liters of water by 30 degrees and nor I've heard of any fan able to instantly cool that water from 130 C to 50 C. Am I right and the temperature sensor should be replaced? The strange fact is that this behavior only occurs from time to time, not all the time. Would a computer scan detect this potential problem as well?
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Adrian
Re: Engine temperature
And root cause discovered: failed head gasket. I've found today an ugly plastic deposit right below the oil filler cap - dark plastic, looking like melted and then solidified again there. Just like Angle Grinder above advised. 
Thing is that I only did like 40 km with this problem becoming apparent. Is there any chance of escaping an engine rebuilding?
Thing is that I only did like 40 km with this problem becoming apparent. Is there any chance of escaping an engine rebuilding?
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Anton
Re: Engine temperature
Hi Adrian
in my Kappa,16v turbo sometimes in the past temperature gauge went from 30 to 120 and back again, thats because of mixed cables in your temperature sensor, do a better installation with you r cable thats responsible with the temperature and problem will be fixed.You dont need to replace the sensor just to install a better installation of the cable thats responsible for the temprature cable.
in my Kappa,16v turbo sometimes in the past temperature gauge went from 30 to 120 and back again, thats because of mixed cables in your temperature sensor, do a better installation with you r cable thats responsible with the temperature and problem will be fixed.You dont need to replace the sensor just to install a better installation of the cable thats responsible for the temprature cable.