Rare engine in the market?

donbay · Unread post by **donbay** » 23 Oct 2006, 03:49

Many thanks Geoff.

I will try to contact some more people like Toly Arutunoff who still
owns 1962 Flaminia Zagato.

P. de R. Leclercq · Unread post by **P. de R. Leclercq** » 23 Oct 2006, 11:51

An interesting post, Geoff, which points out (as if we needed to know) how much times have changed.

It certainly seems that the Italians in the 1950s and '60s and indeed later, were well capable of making all kinds of "one-offs" that would be considered extraordinary today. Perhaps as then then finest aluminium casters in the world, such jobs were not a problem. A leter example, from 1972, is the Fulvia Zagato competitzione that was developed by Samuele Baggioli. The car was fitted with Kugelfischer fuel-injection, incorporating what was obviously a specially-made slide-throttle assembly - using aluminium castings. Very unlikely these days I would say!

Certainly I recall the supercharger drive you mentioned; I have seen the replica lightweight B20 competitzione that belongs (belonged?) to Anthony Maclean. The blower, a substantial item, was driven by three vee-belts from the propshaft. I suspect that pert of the reason for this choice was that there simply wasn't anywhere else to put it, so I cannot imagine it being mounted on the engine as Donay suggests.

I look forward to hearing more about this fascinating topic.

Paul

Geoff Goldberg · Unread post by **Geoff Goldberg** » 24 Oct 2006, 04:25

Paul -

There is another of the replicas with blowers with a man named Lauriana in Connecticut. Friends have seen it, but I have not. It would be lovely to see.

One wonders how much those cars weigh - I had a chance to actually weigh a s.4 B20, and it came to 2720#, wet, 1/2 tank of gas, ready for road, without passengers. FYI - a 6th s. B24 was 2780. Yet in the restoration of the s. 2 B20 (currently underway), two or three of us can easily lift the chassis/body shell, with nothing assembled in it.

How wonderful to know how much this stuff really weighed!

Geoff

P. de R. Leclercq · Unread post by **P. de R. Leclercq** » 24 Oct 2006, 10:45

Hello Geof.

Hmm 2720 lbs - about a ton and a quarter. No so bad I think, as I am sure you know if you have ever attempted to lift a transaxle as I did once (that is with someone else!) When I was younger I could just carry a Fulvia one; it weighs 65kg - about 143lbs...and I am sure that the B20 one is heavier and probably the Flaminia one is worse. The engine is probably not too bad I imagine, being mostly aluminium.

Totally off the point, I read that the 2.5 litre F1 BRM's box weighed 165lbs!! However, they later made a six-speed transaxle for the 1.5 litre F1 cars that weighed 72lbs. I'd like one of those in my Fulvia!
Paul

donbay · Unread post by **donbay** » 26 Oct 2006, 07:47

Thanks everyone for all the information.

Our engine mechanic said that a strange protruding part, 5th photo, might be
for a chain tensioner adjusting tension of a camchain on DOHC heads.

Also, the engine heads are different from a standard Flaminia.
Short reach spark plugs are used on our engine.
Standard ones are a long reach.

P. de R. Leclercq · Unread post by **P. de R. Leclercq** » 26 Oct 2006, 09:05

Well as Alice said: "curiouser and curiouser".

I shall be most interested to hear the outcome of all this.

In fact I wonder of Lancia can help? The man to contact would probably be Signor Enrico Masala; I am sure he would be able to find out.

Perhaps someone on the Italian forum could help?

Paul

donbay · Unread post by **donbay** » 26 Oct 2006, 13:36

I found a photo of the same cylinder block having the
same protruding part in the following site.

http://www.flaminiasport.com/pagina00.html

This Flaminia shop in Italy shows exactly the same cylinder block in their
web site.
I sent an e-mail to ask for our Flaminia Zagato, but, I am not so sure
if they realize English. May be, no answer is coming.

If someone understands Italian, please send them an e-mail in Italian
instead of me, then, post their answer in here.

donbay · Unread post by **donbay** » 27 Oct 2006, 02:13

http://www.viva-lancia.com/aurelia/EngComp.htm

This is a supercharged engine for Aurelia.

donbay · Unread post by **donbay** » 28 Oct 2006, 23:46

I received the following information from Mr. Christoph Grohe, Swtzerland.

*********************************************************************************
Having owned several Flaminia zagato and seen many more I can only say
that the bodies and especially the noses of those cars were regularly
modified over the years in order to have a more "racy" look.

There were a handfull of Flaminia Zagato race lighweight cars built when
new but I do not know where they are today or even if they still exist.

***********************************************************************************

Randy Adams · Unread post by **Randy Adams** » 01 Nov 2006, 17:01

The later (2.8 liter) Pininfarina coupes used a one-piece propshaft. This was accomplished by the simple expedients of adding bellhousings to the back of the engine and also to the front of the transaxle. I don't have one of these later cars to compare the castings but the bellhousings on your car are probably from that source.

The blank on the passenger-side of the block is simply a plug for the old mechanical fuel pump mount. It was common to blank this off and retrofit the car with an electric unit. Two of my cars have this. Lancia changed the casting later when all of the Flaminia range used electric fuel pumps.

The removal of the vibration damper was probably done simply to trim down rotational inertia for the engine.

My guess is that this car is an artfully improved version for competition use with the modifications done by one of its owners and NOT by Lancia.