stiff 2nd gear

[Bill Rempe]

Hello everyone,

My S3 doesn't like to shift in to second gear, and from reading other posts, I understand this is pretty common. Once it warms up, it's still noticable but not bad, but when the car is cold this is pretty annoying. I have read suggestions about double clutching and using lubricants like Castrol TAF-X, but was wondering if anyone can tell me more about what causes this problem and what is involved in really fixing it. Is it true that a proper repair is more expensive than replacing the transmission? Other than this, I am enjoying my car immensely!

By the way, had the chance to swap stories and a few cold ones with fellow Fulvia owner Stephan Protzen when he passed through Atlanta back in November... Thanks Stephan.

Ciao, Bill

[Bart Verbeek]

Bill

It means the synchromesh off second gear is worn. What I did with my S2 zagato with the same problem: when cold I started in 2nd gear or shifted from first to 3rd.

Only 1 solution: rebuild gearbox.

Mine is still awaiting it's turn.

greetings

Bart

[Peter Cripps]

Bill, it's definitely worth trying different oils. I found Redline 75W90 synthetic gear oil made cold shifting into 2nd much easier than with generic GL-5 from the local parts store. Much easier and less expensive than a transmission rebuild!

Peter

[tim]

Gear oil is a contributor but a lot of fulvias suffer until warm regardless of oil I use Mobil fully synthetic 75-90 and have 3 fulvias. 2 are delightful. The other with only 20k miles on the clock is a pig till warm then changes but not super fast. Indeed if cold and you count say 1,2,3 while changing then it goes without crunching, and I try to remember this but difficult with such a willing engine.

I did see through another post that bent 2nd gear selector forks contribute due to forcing at an earlier part of the car's life.

By contrast, my 175kmile old 1.6 sport is silky smooth!!

[Kim Roberts]

I tried a fully synthetic in a previous Fulvia 1.3s and found the oil was so thin it seeped out everywhere. When I put back ordinary gear oil it stopped leaking. It certainly made the gearbox smoother when cold,but as I live in the country I put the car into second gear once and drive several miles before using 2nd again,by that time is hot and not a problem.
I have the problem with a stiff (when cold) second with my 1.6HF,but as per above I can happily live with it.
Other solution is but a S1 Fulvia with a 4 speed box like my 1.2 and its as smooth as silk.

[Justin Hildreth]

I posted this a few weeks ago, and am 100% certain that it is true:

"Hi - the only reason the shift from 1st to 2nd is hard is because the shift was done too many times without "mechanical sympathy" ie.cold oil.

If you were to dismantle a 'difficult' 5spd (dog-leg 1st) box you will
almost without fail notice that the 1st gear selector fork is bent.
I found this many years ago, and with the use of a big vice and a suitable
soft-face hammer, rendered it the smoothest 40 year old Fulvia gearchange ever.

New oil helps, and silicone variants are said to be beneficial, too, but a
direct, square push on the sync ring is all that works to restore the feel engineered-in by the factory."

The box comes apart quite easily but take care not to use anything other than engineer's 'blue' (Hylomar) to seal the bottom edge faces when re-assembling. The tolerances within the casing are very tight.

Enjoy the project!
Regds,
Jus

[johnny48]

OK ? where R U located, so I can plan my visit to U to watch U as U perform this miracle...as long as you R not further away than 1 (very small) tank of petrol !

[Justin]

Hi Johnny
We've already discussed this, and we ran out of beer, I believe!

Drain oil.
2 x 6mm bolts w/tabwasher on n/side (left) output shaft.
1 circlip.
1 big nut, I think. (It's been 15 years!)
Remove output shaft and speedo drive.
Remove backplate.
Start undoing case bolts (nb. some are dowel bolts.)
Lift off left side casing.
See beautifully engineered geartrain.
Lift out selector shaft (nb. detente ball will try and escape!)
Observe bent fork.
Remove from shaft observing re-assembly order.
Hold tube part in soft jaws.
Hit with softface hammer/mallet until straight and square (no,I don't mean like that!)
Re-assemble and replace selector shaft.
Re-assemble gearbox using Blue Hylomar on bottom edge mating faces.
Easy!
Good luck,
Jus

[Johnny48]

oh yeah; now I remember. Thanks for "reminding" me to remember.
I've been, as U may have determined, joshingly looking for someone to make my perfect Fulvia more perfect, for the price of a ( I joke not) warmish-to-warm beer.
Why warmish-to-warm beer ? In Germany (where I live), beer is seldomly served Ice-Cold & in the UK / Ireland it is never-ever served below room-temperature. Still, beer tastes good, in all these places.

Thanks for the detailed step-by-step procedure list, but I won't be personally benefit from it in "this-lifetime", unless someone with a lot of tools comes by, for a beer !
Speaking of beer; last week while visitingTrento I had a beer before my "truck-drivers-supper"; then, later, 2 more. The truck-driver meal included 1/2 Liter Aqua, 1/4 liter wine, grilled-veggy in olive-oil salad, 2 large courses (pasta or rice & meat or fish) + a after dinner coffee. If you pass on something, you pay anyway, so I & everyone else in te restaurant ate / drank everything. The guests were also staying in the Hotel.
.
3 Beers cost more than this fine meal.!!! Morale " when in Italy, drink water or wine", after all its free !
Don't worry about my mixing wine & beer, the meal lasted 3 hours & the last 2 beers were "afterwards" in the huge TV room...watching Soccer with a crowd of rabid-Italian-fans. I cheered when they did,
I don't know what Ital team was playing what German team, in what League nor why, but my German associate (he was the only 1 'siding' with the German Team, so I cheered for his team too!)explained everything to me. More or less in the same degree of detail you explained "advanced-gearbox for-very-
advanced-Master-Mechanics".
Due to 3 beers & 1/4 L. of wine & not really caring, I didn't retain a thing about the match. I can't even remember who won, if anyone. We also talked about "what to look for when buying a throughbred race horse" (his profession is evaluating Horses) - he to me in very simple 'layman' terms.
Amazing, but I remember those details quite well. Not that they will ever come -in-handy !
I was tired the next day, he wasn't.
He got to drive us home, 800km through the snowy/icey Alps & flatlands, while I slept !

The next day I was in the office bright. early & perky; he got out of bed at 18:00. He went along on the trip 'just for fun' ! I paid thebeer/wine/meal/hotel....and got a driver for free. 2,800km total & I drove none of them. Nice Trip !!

Maybe he is also a "gearbox-expert-for-free-warm-beer"tas well? I think I won't ask him !
Not in this lifetime, anyway!!

Justin wrote:
>
> Hi Johnny
> We've already discussed this, and we ran out of beer, I
> believe!
>
> Drain oil.
> 2 x 6mm bolts w/tabwasher on n/side (left) output shaft.
> 1 circlip.
> 1 big nut, I think. (It's been 15 years!)
> Remove output shaft and speedo drive.
> Remove backplate.
> Start undoing case bolts (nb. some are dowel bolts.)
> Lift off left side casing.
> See beautifully engineered geartrain.
> Lift out selector shaft (nb. detente ball will try and escape!)
> Observe bent fork.
> Remove from shaft observing re-assembly order.
> Hold tube part in soft jaws.
> Hit with softface hammer/mallet until straight and square
> (no,I don't mean like that!)
> Re-assemble and replace selector shaft.
> Re-assemble gearbox using Blue Hylomar on bottom edge mating
> faces.
> Easy!
> Good luck,
> Jus