Hello all
I am trying to set the valve timing on my Flavia 1800 Coupe using the setup described in the official repair shop manual. To paraphrase a little, the manual tells you to set the inlet tappet to 1.03mm (40 thou) clearance and wind the crank until .03 (1 thou) clearance is reached. Then free the camshaft from the sprocket and rotate the crank two turns to 1.3 degrees before TDC. Refix the sprocket, rotate one full turn and reset the tappet clearance to .1mm (4 thou). Rotate crank one turn and repeat on other cam. All of this I can do but I have no idea when the inlet valve is on cylinder 1 supposed to open. With the tappet clearance reset, the inlet seems to want to open about 15 degrees BTDC. Is this correct? It seems a little late to me and I would have thought more like 30 degrees would be correct. Any advice gratefully accepted.
Michael Findlay
1963 Lancia Flavia 1800 Coupe
Port Chalmers
Dunedin NZ
Flavia valve timing
Re: Flavia valve timing
Michael,
Assuming you are working on a 815.330 w/ a 815.300 engine, I believe you are very close. Referring to Lancia Technical Data Sheet 501I, set the clearance to 1 mm + .03 mm for timing setting. This has the intake opening 1.4 (not 1.3) degrees BTDC. After you take the 1 mm clearance down to .03 & pin the sprocket & reset the clearance to .10 mm, you end up with the intake valve opening at 14 degrees before TDC & closing at 58 degrees after BDC.
The only thing that is still confusing is that there is a sub note (3) which states "timing considering a clearance of 0.4 mm.". I am not sure if they are saying that 0.4 mm replaces the .03 mm in the setting clearance, or if it replaces the 1 mm.
Anyone else venture an opinion on this?
Walt
Assuming you are working on a 815.330 w/ a 815.300 engine, I believe you are very close. Referring to Lancia Technical Data Sheet 501I, set the clearance to 1 mm + .03 mm for timing setting. This has the intake opening 1.4 (not 1.3) degrees BTDC. After you take the 1 mm clearance down to .03 & pin the sprocket & reset the clearance to .10 mm, you end up with the intake valve opening at 14 degrees before TDC & closing at 58 degrees after BDC.
The only thing that is still confusing is that there is a sub note (3) which states "timing considering a clearance of 0.4 mm.". I am not sure if they are saying that 0.4 mm replaces the .03 mm in the setting clearance, or if it replaces the 1 mm.
Anyone else venture an opinion on this?
Walt
Re: Flavia valve timing
Michael,
when you set the timing in the described way and end up with 14° BTDC at a standard clearance of 0,1 mm, the engine should work properly.
Walt
I am very successfully ignoring the subnote 3 on a number of Flaminia engines, (823.00, 823.10, 826.030, 826.100).
Hubert
when you set the timing in the described way and end up with 14° BTDC at a standard clearance of 0,1 mm, the engine should work properly.
Walt
I am very successfully ignoring the subnote 3 on a number of Flaminia engines, (823.00, 823.10, 826.030, 826.100).
Hubert
Hubert
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Michael Findlay
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 04 Feb 2009, 08:01
Re: Flavia valve timing
Hi Walt
Yes, it was the .4 temporary clearance that had me worried. If you set the clearance to that value and have the valve opening at around 15 degrees before TDC, when you adjust the clearance back to .1, the valve opens somewhat earlier. Currently it looks like around 35 degrees BTDC when all the clearance is taken up on the tappet. Also, I am not sure when the valve is actually opening or how long it stays on the ramp. I will try a dial gauge on the valve stem and see when it starts to move. If it is around 15 degrees BTDC I will assume success.
Yes, it was the .4 temporary clearance that had me worried. If you set the clearance to that value and have the valve opening at around 15 degrees before TDC, when you adjust the clearance back to .1, the valve opens somewhat earlier. Currently it looks like around 35 degrees BTDC when all the clearance is taken up on the tappet. Also, I am not sure when the valve is actually opening or how long it stays on the ramp. I will try a dial gauge on the valve stem and see when it starts to move. If it is around 15 degrees BTDC I will assume success.
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Michael Findlay
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 04 Feb 2009, 08:01
Re: Flavia valve timing
Thanks Hubert
I will ignore the .4 clearance and see where that takes me. I will report my findings. Others must have been here before me given the lack of markings on flywheels and sprockets. I have made a TDC pointer and put a punch mark on the front pulley as of the other marks become hidden in the final assembly of engine and gearbox.
All best,
Michael
I will ignore the .4 clearance and see where that takes me. I will report my findings. Others must have been here before me given the lack of markings on flywheels and sprockets. I have made a TDC pointer and put a punch mark on the front pulley as of the other marks become hidden in the final assembly of engine and gearbox.
All best,
Michael
Re: Flavia valve timing
Michael,
there is a way to set the timing where you work without any control clearance. If you have a dial gauge you may try it. It is based on the maximum opening point of the valve. You have to know when the valve opens and when it closes, the maximum opening is on half way in between. You calculate the angle (crankshaft), mark it on the flywheel and adjust the highest point of the valve stem movement to that.
I have not worked with this method, because the conventional way worked fine on my engines, but it has some striking aspects (e.g. elimination of the influence of worn out cams).
If you want I can post you the detailed procedure.
Hubert
there is a way to set the timing where you work without any control clearance. If you have a dial gauge you may try it. It is based on the maximum opening point of the valve. You have to know when the valve opens and when it closes, the maximum opening is on half way in between. You calculate the angle (crankshaft), mark it on the flywheel and adjust the highest point of the valve stem movement to that.
I have not worked with this method, because the conventional way worked fine on my engines, but it has some striking aspects (e.g. elimination of the influence of worn out cams).
If you want I can post you the detailed procedure.
Hubert
Hubert
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Michael Findlay
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 04 Feb 2009, 08:01
Re: Flavia valve timing
Hi Hubert
Yes, if you could give me another way of testing the timing that would be great.
Regards,
Michael
Yes, if you could give me another way of testing the timing that would be great.
Regards,
Michael
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lancialulu
- Posts: 244
- Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 19:53
Re: Flavia valve timing
Hi all/Michael
I recommend setting with DTI and crankshaft protractor but you do need the cam spec in terms of BTDC opening closing etc and ABDC(?) for the exhaust. In essense with a dti on the valve tappet and a protractor (I made one up and bleutacked it to the front pulley with a TDC pointer derived from true TDC (not what is marked on the the flywheel) you can see the valve opening and closing with respect to TDC or BDC (ex). Work from first principles and take care that the cams are suitably positioned roughly so the valves will not touch the pistons (its important on fulvias - I dont know on flavias).
While not a Flavia engine, I set up my fulvia HF engine on this basis quite accurately (ie +/- 3 degs on each) and the engine now is so responsive. I am not a fan of these gap setting ways now!
Best of luck
Tim
I recommend setting with DTI and crankshaft protractor but you do need the cam spec in terms of BTDC opening closing etc and ABDC(?) for the exhaust. In essense with a dti on the valve tappet and a protractor (I made one up and bleutacked it to the front pulley with a TDC pointer derived from true TDC (not what is marked on the the flywheel) you can see the valve opening and closing with respect to TDC or BDC (ex). Work from first principles and take care that the cams are suitably positioned roughly so the valves will not touch the pistons (its important on fulvias - I dont know on flavias).
While not a Flavia engine, I set up my fulvia HF engine on this basis quite accurately (ie +/- 3 degs on each) and the engine now is so responsive. I am not a fan of these gap setting ways now!
Best of luck
Tim
Re: Flavia valve timing
Michael,
There is an article written by Martin Cliffe called TECHNICAL FEATURE - SETTING THE CAMSHAFT TIMING OF AURELIA AND FLAMINIA ENGINES that out lines the MOP timing procedure very well. It will apply to Flavia engines as well. I accessed this article from the AURELIA WORKSHOP MANUAL, published by Paul Mayo, but it may have come from the English club publication.
I think you have the sheet 510I, so you will have the correct specs..
Your cam timing data:
inlet valve opens - 14 deg BTDC & closes 58 deg ABDC
inlet duration = 14 + 58 + 180 = 252 deg, divided by 2 = 126 deg minus 14 deg = MOP of 112 degrees ATDC
Please get the article and double check my work before you bend any valves.
I will say that I think it is much easier to use this process with the engine out of the car, a real big degree wheel fastened on to the front of the crank and a head off. I use one dial indicator to find true TDC and another one to find the MOP.
Walt
There is an article written by Martin Cliffe called TECHNICAL FEATURE - SETTING THE CAMSHAFT TIMING OF AURELIA AND FLAMINIA ENGINES that out lines the MOP timing procedure very well. It will apply to Flavia engines as well. I accessed this article from the AURELIA WORKSHOP MANUAL, published by Paul Mayo, but it may have come from the English club publication.
I think you have the sheet 510I, so you will have the correct specs..
Your cam timing data:
inlet valve opens - 14 deg BTDC & closes 58 deg ABDC
inlet duration = 14 + 58 + 180 = 252 deg, divided by 2 = 126 deg minus 14 deg = MOP of 112 degrees ATDC
Please get the article and double check my work before you bend any valves.
I will say that I think it is much easier to use this process with the engine out of the car, a real big degree wheel fastened on to the front of the crank and a head off. I use one dial indicator to find true TDC and another one to find the MOP.
Walt
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Michael Findlay
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 04 Feb 2009, 08:01
Advice on valve timing
Thanks to all those who responded to my question about timimg. I noticed some semi-circular marks on the piston tops when I was cleaning the motor up so someone has done this job before me and got it wrong. I certainly want to make sure this is corrected before the engine goes back in as trying to fix things then would be a bit of a nightmare. I was thinking about giving the engine a bit of a run on the subframe while it was still out of the car. I have made up a crankshaft protractor and marked real TDC on the front pulley so I am part way there. I will let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Michael
Cheers
Michael