International Lancia Forums

I am mysteriously losing water and I think it is going into the engine.

Is it possible the seal on the water pump has gone and this is the problem, or is there another failure mode.

I doubt it is the head gasket as I have just replaced this about 500 miles ago and use hi tensile cap bolts to torque down to 25 ft lbs (these were retourqued at 300 miles. If the head gasket is supected I have no evidence by poor running, moisture in cylinders (I have taken out the spark plugs and cranked the engine an ther was no water). I fitted a new rad cap when I changed the head gasket. The radiator has been recored and is sound, and the heater matrix shows no sign of a leak.

I have seen "emulsion" on oil filler cap and breather and on top of the dip stick. The oil looks somewhat opaque.

Ideas anyone?

Tim

Hi Tim, sorry but your problem looks like something that happened on an Alfa Romeo several years ago. Water seems to go in the oil circuit, ans this produce the sauce you can see on the oil filler cap. So the problem is on the head gasket.
The proof can appear by putting air under pressure through spark holes : if pressure decrease, for sure your gasket is worn.

Tim

If you have emulsion on the dip stick, then I would say that water is definitely getting into the oil.

Some emulsion on the oil filler cap can be expected due to the climate. But not on the dip stick.

Hence you either have a leaky head gasket ( why was it changed??) or another source. Of which the oil pump is one.

I'd take off the water pump first and examine it ( it's easier than the head) but you may have to take off the head and examine the head gasket.

Was the head skimmed when you removed it ?

Let us know what you find

Good points from Georges and Michael but you say you think it is going into the engine. You are not sure it is going into the engine.
If one looses water and if there is mayonaise on the filler cap, the obvious conclusion is that water is going into the oil. I think it is true in about half of the cases. The other half of the cases it is coincidence.

If one burns a liter of petrol one of the products is a liter of water. Some may get past the piston rings into the sump and produce mayonaise.

The radiator may have a micro crack, opening at high temp only. One of the solder joints of one of the connect pipes on the rad may have cracked when removing / mounting the rad. Bad rad cap?

The waterpump has a water seal on the water side and an oil seal (or rather a ball bearing functioning as oil seal) on the engine side. In between is a chamber with two weep holes. Any water (or oil) getting past the seal should come out through the weep holes before contaminating the oil (or water). Some times the weep holes are blocked. Check this first.

Tim

My S2 berlina was getting very thirsty on its coolant fluid, with no clue were it was going at.
(Allthough I had a clue, but it was pure guessing because I hadn't done the tests to prove it)

The headgasket was worn between waterhole and cilinder: so I burned the coolant little by little.
No sludge on dipstick or fillercap, no temperature rising, no other symptomes.

Soo first I inspected the outside: waterpump, radiator, all piping... no leaks.

The Fulviameeting in september did no good to the coolant consumption: 15L on 1200km.

Dismantling the head gave it away.
picture: http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-BR8UELNN.jpg

so Tim, try to exclude every possibility, but a 40yr old headgasket could fail little by little.

Time to put on the Sherlock Holmes trousers!

ciao

Bart

Hi all

Huib's advice is just what I wanted to hear (that water pump failure will indicate it self).

I guess it will be the head gasket then which is a drag as every likley hood that the head is not straight.

I will dismantle with care as this is now the third time in as many months (first to resolve rocker mounting bolts that needed re helicoiling, second to replace a loose exhaust valve - not noticed when head was off the first time....).

Tim

Tim:

Search very carefully for corrosion to the cylinder head casting. It is possible that that a water passage has worked its way to an oil passage. Or--worse yet--you may have a crack somewhere. Your head gasket certainly should not have failed in 500 miles.

But before you pull the head, make absolutely sure the weep holes on the water pump are clear. They are located at a nice grime collection point.

It is also worth checking the screw-in plugs in the cylinder head. I have lost water through one of these that was badly corroded. If this is the case you will see water droplets in the head if you remove the cover.

I will report back after taking a look this w/e

Tim

Similar plugs are in the bottom of the cilinder block. They do indeed occasionally rust away.