Hello all...
I've just purchased a '75 Fulvia 3 that was recently imported Italy! Currently it's in Florida, and I'm very excited to get it here in TX this week to see if it's going to be money well spent or not. Despite all the good advice about seeing the car first, inspecting the sills, etc, I finally bit the bullet and bought a car at what I thought was a reasonable price on as much information as possible without travelling to see it! I've been looking for a Fulvia for so long (over a year) that I felt this was the closest I'll get to one. It's not so much that I wouldn't be willing to travel, but I'm afraid the car would be gone before I got there! It's that hard to find one in the US! So lots of photos have gone back and forth, and my total out of pocket to get it here to TX has been about $6500 US. We'll see soon what that's bought me.
I've been corresponding with Huib and others, and was going to post some questions, but after reading back through the forums, I found answers to a lot of my questions. Thanks to all of you!
I've found a very good Ferrari/Fiat/Alfa/Lancia mechanic here that is very familiar with this car and is VERY excited to have one to work on from time to time. So I have a good headstart. Other than an immediate change of all fluids, filters, and plugs with a tune-up, is there anything else I should specifically ask him to look at during my post-purchase inspection? All suggestions welcome!
One of the first "cosmetic" projects I've been considering are mounting a 36.5cm Nardi steering wheel that I already have. I really enjoyed the series of posts about removing the stock wheel! Looking forward to the same fun here when the time comes! Does anyone have info on the proper Nardi steering wheel boss though? I need to find am having a hard time finding knowledgable resources or suppliers here in the US (no surprise there!).
Other good info on the forum was about wheels and tires in general. I too have narrowed it down to the Vredensteins 165R14s for my 4.5" stock steel wheels. I had hoped to find some variation of the Campagnolo or Cromodora listed on the Piero Vanzetti link from Viva-Lancia, or maybe Stilauto, FPS, or some other ally wheel that might work. Gonna wait though until I drive the car as is and see how it feels and looks to me.
In the meantime, doing "research". Any thoughts about going to a 15" and lower profile to keep the same total diameter/circumference? A 185/60R15 is still fairly easy to find in the US and fits on either 5" of 5.5" wheel. But I see from some of Huib's posts, and he email advice, that a 185 will cause clearance problems for my on my Series 2 coupe. And of course, finding a 15x5 or 5.5 with a 4x130 bolt pattern AND the right offset is likely to be near impossible. Anybody been down this road before?
Enough for now. Looking forward to using this resource and sharing my new baby with you. I'll post pics as soon as I take some good ones myself, but sent one to Huib yesterday.
Chas
Another Fulvia in the US!
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Jeez...
Just read back my post. I'm a native English speaker with a degree in English Lit from UCLA, and my English/spelling is worse than some I've seen posted with apologies!!!
So... apologies. I'll slow down next time!
(Can you tell I'm excited?!)
Chas
Just read back my post. I'm a native English speaker with a degree in English Lit from UCLA, and my English/spelling is worse than some I've seen posted with apologies!!!
So... apologies. I'll slow down next time!
(Can you tell I'm excited?!)
Chas
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Chas,
Congratulations! Another US Fulvista is always welcome. I sent you an e-mail off-list, but I'll repeat part of it here.
Fulvias neither need nor want wide, low-profile tires unless you’re going racing. The factory did a great job of suspension tuning, and the original-size tires will give you crisp handling and the best possible steering response. Wider tires may get you more ultimate grip on a skid pad, but they will make the steering less responsive and will stress the suspension components more. (Don’t worry—Fulvia suspensions and wheel bearings are very robust, but these cars aren't getting any younger…) My Fanalone runs 'skinny' 175/80-13s (stock size), and this morning I ran a very twisty stretch of Mulholland Drive; I really didn’t miss having wider tires.
In my opinion, go with the stock 165-14s, but instead of the Vredsteins I’d really go with Michelin XAS. The 1.6HF was the hottest Fulvia the factory ever made, and it came standard with Michelin XAS tires.
Michelin has re-issued the XAS, and 165-14 is an available size. They’re NOT cheap, but they’re absolutely fantastic tires! and they were actually a factory option on most Fulvia coupes. (In the 13" sizes, the bastards have re-issued every size except my 175s—otherwise I’d have bought a set in a heartbeat.) But I ran XAS on my Fiat X1/9 back in ’74, and they had more grip than any of the 70-series that replaced them, with amazing steering response. Do yourself a favor: forget the 15” idea. By all means find some 14” alloys (eBay and eBay.it are good sources), but put on a set of 165-14 XAS.
And one final thing: do join the American Lancia Club.
Regards, Ed Levin
Congratulations! Another US Fulvista is always welcome. I sent you an e-mail off-list, but I'll repeat part of it here.
Fulvias neither need nor want wide, low-profile tires unless you’re going racing. The factory did a great job of suspension tuning, and the original-size tires will give you crisp handling and the best possible steering response. Wider tires may get you more ultimate grip on a skid pad, but they will make the steering less responsive and will stress the suspension components more. (Don’t worry—Fulvia suspensions and wheel bearings are very robust, but these cars aren't getting any younger…) My Fanalone runs 'skinny' 175/80-13s (stock size), and this morning I ran a very twisty stretch of Mulholland Drive; I really didn’t miss having wider tires.
In my opinion, go with the stock 165-14s, but instead of the Vredsteins I’d really go with Michelin XAS. The 1.6HF was the hottest Fulvia the factory ever made, and it came standard with Michelin XAS tires.
Michelin has re-issued the XAS, and 165-14 is an available size. They’re NOT cheap, but they’re absolutely fantastic tires! and they were actually a factory option on most Fulvia coupes. (In the 13" sizes, the bastards have re-issued every size except my 175s—otherwise I’d have bought a set in a heartbeat.) But I ran XAS on my Fiat X1/9 back in ’74, and they had more grip than any of the 70-series that replaced them, with amazing steering response. Do yourself a favor: forget the 15” idea. By all means find some 14” alloys (eBay and eBay.it are good sources), but put on a set of 165-14 XAS.
And one final thing: do join the American Lancia Club.
Regards, Ed Levin
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Thanks Ed. I responded to your email as well. I appreciate all the advice, and PROMISE to leave the wheels alone for some time. If I do anything, it will be with appropriate alloys like those I mentioned in my first post.
I'm open to any contacts or referrals for any suitable wheels that might come up, but I'm in NO HURRY to resolve that issue. Given the consistent advice from you, Huib, Tassos (in Crete), and others I've corresponded with, I feel doing anything to the wheel geometry at this point would be foolish, at least until I have a lot more experience with the car myself.
Regards...Chas
I'm open to any contacts or referrals for any suitable wheels that might come up, but I'm in NO HURRY to resolve that issue. Given the consistent advice from you, Huib, Tassos (in Crete), and others I've corresponded with, I feel doing anything to the wheel geometry at this point would be foolish, at least until I have a lot more experience with the car myself.
Regards...Chas
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
I agree completely with Ed.
Make a clear decision whether you want to go racing or use it for normal roads and stick to that decision. These are two different planets.
You have the steel wheels. The probably have rust under the tire. Figure on blasting and coating before you put new tires WITH tubes.
It is more fun to use your back, bottom, hands and feet for fast driving on twisty roads than your wallet.
There are original alloy 4,5J14 wheels which were mounted on export models of S3 coupe and optional in Italy. The steel wheels however are excellent.
If for some reason you don't feel secure and happy in the car, I bet 100 to 1 it is another problem than the tires. Most likely it is the sill structure but of course also springs, rubbers, shocks, anti-roll bars and their bushes, steering box etc have to be checked to see if still within specifications.
I finished restoration of Celestina, one of my 1967 coupe's on april 1st and have done 25000 kms with it since then. Everything is as it was when the car left the factory including 145R14 tires on the standard steel wheels. Every mile with a smile. There is no other car, modern or classic, that comes close to its responsiveness and handling. Mind you, in my book restoration means restoration to its original specifications and structural strength. No short cuts.
Bear in mind also that the surface area of the contact patch between tire and road does not depend on tire width. It only depends on pressure and weight. If the weigh is say 300kg and the tire pressure is 2 bar the tire deforms till the surface area of the contact patch is 150 square cm.
The difference is in the shape of the contact patch. Narrow and long on narrow tires. Shorter and wider on wide tires. The car and its suspension was designed for the longer narrow patch as was common till the early 70's.
Also, friction is only depending on weight and friction coefficient. The surface area drops out of the equations. Wider tires are only necessary for better cooling and lower wear, neither is an issue. And of course if the diameter becomes smaller (as on modern cars) the width has to increase to get the same volume of air. The volume of air determines the load rating of a tire.
Make a clear decision whether you want to go racing or use it for normal roads and stick to that decision. These are two different planets.
You have the steel wheels. The probably have rust under the tire. Figure on blasting and coating before you put new tires WITH tubes.
It is more fun to use your back, bottom, hands and feet for fast driving on twisty roads than your wallet.
There are original alloy 4,5J14 wheels which were mounted on export models of S3 coupe and optional in Italy. The steel wheels however are excellent.
If for some reason you don't feel secure and happy in the car, I bet 100 to 1 it is another problem than the tires. Most likely it is the sill structure but of course also springs, rubbers, shocks, anti-roll bars and their bushes, steering box etc have to be checked to see if still within specifications.
I finished restoration of Celestina, one of my 1967 coupe's on april 1st and have done 25000 kms with it since then. Everything is as it was when the car left the factory including 145R14 tires on the standard steel wheels. Every mile with a smile. There is no other car, modern or classic, that comes close to its responsiveness and handling. Mind you, in my book restoration means restoration to its original specifications and structural strength. No short cuts.
Bear in mind also that the surface area of the contact patch between tire and road does not depend on tire width. It only depends on pressure and weight. If the weigh is say 300kg and the tire pressure is 2 bar the tire deforms till the surface area of the contact patch is 150 square cm.
The difference is in the shape of the contact patch. Narrow and long on narrow tires. Shorter and wider on wide tires. The car and its suspension was designed for the longer narrow patch as was common till the early 70's.
Also, friction is only depending on weight and friction coefficient. The surface area drops out of the equations. Wider tires are only necessary for better cooling and lower wear, neither is an issue. And of course if the diameter becomes smaller (as on modern cars) the width has to increase to get the same volume of air. The volume of air determines the load rating of a tire.
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Anybody have any comments on the Nardi steering column boss?
Since I've put to bed the subject of tires/wheels for a while, that's the only thing currently on my to-do list, except completely servicing the car, getting familiar with it, and seeing what else needs attention.
Thanks...Chas
Since I've put to bed the subject of tires/wheels for a while, that's the only thing currently on my to-do list, except completely servicing the car, getting familiar with it, and seeing what else needs attention.
Thanks...Chas
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Thanks Huib...
Yes, I think in my email to you, I responded that the pictured wheels you provided were the same as mine, but noticed afterwards that they are the almost identical alloys, same dimensions. One last question, then I'll drop this entire wheel/tire line of inquiry...
Was the Blue '76 Fulvia 3 at http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/Fulvia/fulviae.html one of your cars at some time in the past? It's on page 1 of the Portfolio link and is labeled as wearing the 5.5x14 Cromodoras. Do the stock 5.5x14 wheels also fit on a Fulvia 3 without modification?
I'm guessing no, but wanted to check. I seem to remember reading in the forum somewhere that you were able to run these with some minor wheel arch changes, but wasn't sure. I certainly don't want to undertake that myself.
Thanks!
Yes, I think in my email to you, I responded that the pictured wheels you provided were the same as mine, but noticed afterwards that they are the almost identical alloys, same dimensions. One last question, then I'll drop this entire wheel/tire line of inquiry...
Was the Blue '76 Fulvia 3 at http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/Fulvia/fulviae.html one of your cars at some time in the past? It's on page 1 of the Portfolio link and is labeled as wearing the 5.5x14 Cromodoras. Do the stock 5.5x14 wheels also fit on a Fulvia 3 without modification?
I'm guessing no, but wanted to check. I seem to remember reading in the forum somewhere that you were able to run these with some minor wheel arch changes, but wasn't sure. I certainly don't want to undertake that myself.
Thanks!
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Whether the 5,5J14 wheels fit or not is a matter of opinion.
You can put them on but they do not really fit. The tires interfere with the rear wheelarches so you have to modify the rubber bump stop at the rear to prevent this from happening and to allow you to limp home if a spring breaks. But at the same time you limit the upward travel of the rear axle which results in overloads on the wheel bearings and the wrong places of the body.
On a Fulvia the clearance between wheels and steering parts is small. Any increase in width over the standard 4.5 inch thus has to be on the outside part of the wheel. If the width is increased by 1 inch the center of the tire moves outward by 1/2 inch. This is a lot. It puts extra strain on suspension and steering parts as well as on the wheel bearings. It also ruins the excellent geometry. Although the steering is still very good compared to other cars it is not as precise and balanced as with the original 4.5J14 wheels.
You can put them on but they do not really fit. The tires interfere with the rear wheelarches so you have to modify the rubber bump stop at the rear to prevent this from happening and to allow you to limp home if a spring breaks. But at the same time you limit the upward travel of the rear axle which results in overloads on the wheel bearings and the wrong places of the body.
On a Fulvia the clearance between wheels and steering parts is small. Any increase in width over the standard 4.5 inch thus has to be on the outside part of the wheel. If the width is increased by 1 inch the center of the tire moves outward by 1/2 inch. This is a lot. It puts extra strain on suspension and steering parts as well as on the wheel bearings. It also ruins the excellent geometry. Although the steering is still very good compared to other cars it is not as precise and balanced as with the original 4.5J14 wheels.
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
Don't throw away the original steering wheel. Many discover after some years that the original steering wheel is the best both funtionally as well as esthetically. It took me ten years to discover that.
Re: Another Fulvia in the US!
So...
Leaving the stock steel wheels alone; end fo this particular thread.
Thanks!
Leaving the stock steel wheels alone; end fo this particular thread.
Thanks!