why no RHD Lancia??

[MARK TOBIN]

An article i read recently got me thinking as to why theres no RHD production Lancia's anymore.

Ok so we all know the reason for Lancia pulling the plug on RHD cars, ie massive downturn in sales caused by awful dealers, dire build quality & woeful cars like the Dedra. But that was 10 years ago things have changed, they actually produce some nice cars now (Y & Thesis), now someone correct me if i'm wrong but all Lanica are built on Fiat Auto platforms, and both Fiat and Alfa produce RHD cars, so surely it doesn't make any sense for Lancia to say that re-engineering their cars for RHD would be too expensive given the numbers they'd probably sell... as these platforms are already produced in RHD.

Potentially Lancia are missing out on the 2nd biggest market in Europe (re sales FY2003), the Uk with sales of 2.5 million. Even if Lancia were to get say .5% of the full market, thats still 12500 cars, about 10% of their sales.

Ofcourse certain things must happen before Lancia could confidently return to RHD cars, their image needs to be restored, as at the moment basically all they are is rebadged Fiats with a grille, anyone who has ever delth with Lancia/Fiat/Alfa sales & service people are aware that "customer service" isn't a word they know, and the constant trouble of dodgy build quality that plagues all Fiat Auto cars needs to be addressed. I'm not saying the things fall apart or rust away anymore, but its the constant little bits that go wrong that'll drive people away from the brands.

I think in order for Lancia to survive (still not a cert, given the small numbers they sell in) they must re-open markets such as the Uk, Aus, and Japan- all RHD markets.

[Paul de R. Leclercq]

I disagree about the Dedra.

Apart from the 1600c.c. model, it was an excellent car and greatly under-rated.

I had a 1.8 i.e. for five years. It lived in the street and was utterly reliable and there was not a speck of rust on it.

Paul

[mark]

ok, but it wasn't a "real" Lancia, more a Fiat Tempra with a grille

[Paul de Raymond Leclercq]

Well on that basis there have been no real Lancias since 1976 with the exception of the Gamma. All cars have used FIAT components for the major units.

As it happens some of the FIAT Lancias have been good cars - Integrale, Thema, Dedra, Thesis, Ypsilon, although of course I would prefer to have Lancia as it was in the days of the Aurelia, Flaminia, Fulvia!

Paul

[alan cooper]

almost all cars have changed over the past 40 or so years they are all mongrels with mixed backgrounds not just Lancia

[Randy Adams]

Yes, but Lancia's bloodlines are the weakest of all and that's why I think they are fading. With the Beta, the mechanicals were Fiat (except perhaps the brakes and rear suspension) but at least the bodies of the coupe and HPE were from a pre-Fiat Lancia source, Piero Castagnero. The Gamma was largely authentic Lancia. After that, the slide into badge engineering. Alfa still at least has one engine that it designed. Once it's gone, Alfa may also start the slow slide. OR, in light of its international sales and genuinely attractive cars, Alfa will be the only name that survives with both Lancia and Fiat gone.

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Getting back to Mark's original post, the simple answer is money. It costs money to relaunch a brand, to reopen dealers, to tool up for RHD. Fiat is battling back from the brink but Fiat Auto still lost 280 million euros in the last quarter alone. It is a sad fact but true, Lancia just isn't a high priority - it ranks behind Fiat (obviously), Alfa and even commercial vehicles in terms of product and advertising budgets. Let them start making money, then you can start thinking seriously about RHD.

Incidentally, I don't think Alfa is as safe as you make out, Randy. Their quality is simply not good enough. Friend of mine who runs an X1/9 drove a 156 with 40,000km on the clock, and reckons it had more squeaks and rattles than the Fiat, which let's face it, isn't exactly a Rolls-Royce in terms of build quality, and that trend is repeated in almost any relevant forum. On the other hand, the experiences I read here and other forums of owners of new Lancias generally report a very high level of quality and reliability. I'm told the reason is because Lancias are built exclusively in the north of Italy, whereas a lot of Alfas are manufactured in the south, which still accounts for the difference in quality. For the record, Fiat is split between the two, and so it is with their quality/reliability record.

[justin]

I have to add to the current attack on Alfa Romeo, sadly.
I've just started work with a new firm that has been using a fleet of 156s for the sales force, and it was announced to me that they have had nothing but trouble with the cars, including engine and gearbox replacements!
This was as I was extolling the virtues of my aged Thema and Fulvia, and arguing the toss with the managing director between Italian and German motoring. He, having just bought himself a new SL500 and his wife a new 911 Carrera.
Please, Lancia, give me something new to show off !!

[Brian Hilton]

Having owned in the past 12 years, 4 Dedras, 2 1993 Thema's(1 curently in use), Delta Hf Turbo and a 1999 Ypsilon Elefantino Rosso (LHD bought new in Rotterdam). and have had a 1968 Series 1 Fulvia 1.3 Rallye Coupe, & currently have a 1966 Fulvia 2c Berlina (both considered to be True Lancia's). I think I'm in a reasonable position to make comments on "Fiat" Lancia's, none of these have given me any major problems and have been nice to drive, they are certainly in the spirit of "old" Lancia's even if they are made by Fiat.
Prior to owning Dedra's & Thema's. I have never in 48 years of motoring, previously owned more than one model of any car, I would also point out none of these were company cars, they were all paid for with my owned hard earned cash.
Do all the people denigrating Dedra-Thema etc actually own, or have owned one of these models? have any of them supported Lancia by buying a new LHD Lancia ? or are they all fans of the the dream of glory days. Unfortunately, if we don't support the current models then any dream of future Lancia RHD comeback will be pipe dreams any way.

Brian Hilton
Dedra Adviser
Lancia Motor Club
UK

[Randy Adams]

Very sorry to hear about Alfas, since they are more likely to find their way back into the U.S. than are Lancias and, frankly, they are the more attractive looking cars now. I find it puzzling that cars using essentially the same mechanical components would yield such different reliability results. If the Lancia factory still does such a great job of building cars, maybe it should be spun off to an owner that appreciates this ability and will give the company a chance to express it more fully.

Responding to Mr. Hilton, I am unfortunately in a market where it is not realistically possible to acquire a new Fiat Lancia. I have owned two Fulvias, two Betas (one still in my possession) and four Flaminias (all still in my possession). One of the things that I want in a Lancia is outward beauty. This will be found in the Fulvia coupes (factory and Z), in all of the Flaminias (although some folks may not like the berlina) and in most of the Betas (certainly in the Castagnero-designed coupe). My objection to cars like the Thema and Dedra is that they are exceptionally bland looking. The Thesis is bloated looking. The Lybra has too much of the Mercedes knock-off about it. Now, the Hyena . . . . that's my idea of a proper Lancia from the modern era.

While I hold onto my 1981 Beta coupe stubbornly because of its beauty and good handling, I can confirm that it definitely does not have the engineering integrity of the Fulvia. It is not at all a bad car, but it is also not a very exceptional one when you start looking at the innards. I would love to see what the modern cars are like. For starters, I am sure that the 90 mm stroke 1995 cc engine benefits greatly from the balance shafts. A turbo 16v version would be very interesting.