International Lancia Forums

Having had the handbrake sorted and the silencer fitted Fanalona is driving really well and seems to me to be a little better if not smoother and quiter.

However the mechanic has had a good look over Fanalona, and its seems that that rear axle is very slightly bent though not much as to affect drive much, it is not urgent to remedy it straight away he tells me however the geometry is slightly affected and will in the long term cause wear and need to be solved.

He has resisted to realign the axle as this may be too much work for him to do and is something that has to be precise he says.

I have had a look in the spare parts catalogue and it appears that HF rear axles are unique to 1,6HF's.

My question is, can a s2 HF rearaxle be used as a replacement on a s1 1,6 HF? If I can find one(hopefully) Or can any other series Fulvia (s2, s3) rearaxle be used on my series 1 1,6HF or if not, is it possible to straighten the axle and how would it be done? Is it adviasble to do so or would I be better off to find a replacement?

Thanks in advance
Mortuza

The Fanalone rear axle is set up for negative camber (1 degree i think). It is unique to the S1 1.6 and has aluminium ends. I guess you could use a a S2 axle but it would not suit the car and would probably give the wheels an un-natural (for a Fanalone) upright stance, and combined with the negative front camber and lower ride hight may also affect handling.

Are you sure when he says the axle is bent he is not confusing bent with the built in camber ?

yes the axle is bent and is not the negative camber - it seems that the axle took a knock at one time as there is evidence of a dent.

It would be very nice if someone figured how to cure bent axles.

And / or how to take the end pieces off. If this can be done, it might be possible to exchange the central tube part with that of an S2 car of which there are plenty in scrapyards.

Neil, I would be surprised to hear that all fanalone's had negative camber at the rear. The technical data does not indicate this at all. For sure 1degree is too large. I measure .3% negative at my car, and have seen many others with slightly positive camber. I have found 3 negative camber axles in total. But this might be from hard use and bending other than intended use.

And Mortuza, do not even think of swapping your rear axle with a S2 one. The alloy ends are 4.5kg's lighter on your car than on the S2 ones.

You are correct, got confused I think! Mine also has about 0.3 degree negetive camber (crudely measured, but when the axle comes off I shall do it correctly). The difference between the Fanaone and the others is the toe in measured at the wheel rims.

I am almost certain that the S2 rear axle will not suit your car: not because of the geometry - the differences being so small as to be practically negligble in my view.

No the reason is that I do not think it possible to mount your Dunlop rear brakes on the S2 axle - I cannot be certain of the reason - I looked at this one years ago, but I have a feeling that there is a different offset on the S2 calipers.

In your position I would simply find a S1 rear axle.

Where are you?

Paul

I think you are right Paul, that the Dunlop callipers do not fit. However, the diameter of the cilinders in the Girling rear callipers is near enough to the diameter of the Dunlop cilinders. One could thus keep the Girling callipers with the axle and of course the S2 handbrake mechanism.

I would prefer however to keep the Dunlop callipers because of their superior performance. And doing away with the leight weight rear axle is as close to mortal sin as you can get. One looses his place next to Vincenzo in heaven.

Who finds a way to remove the castings from the tube?

Sorry Huib,

I have to disagree about the superior performance of the Dunlop calipers - but of course, we have been here before! However, S2 rear discs are not easy to find, whilst the S1 ones never seem to wear out - perhaps there's a message in this?

Surely you agree that the S2 handbrake is in a totally different league from the S1 one?

Years ago, I recall that in the Alvis Owner Club, standard advice to pass our MoT test ("Controle Technique") for cars equipped with Dunlop discs, with new handbrake pads, was apply handbrake, drive at 30mph (50kph) for about 2 miles, stop, re-adjust and attempt MoT test!

Rgds

Paul

Well, here we go again for the new comers.
Lancia itself says that the Dunlop brakes are better. On the last pages of the Fulvia Technical Databook there is a list with stopping distances from various speeds for all the Fulvia models. The same pages are at the back of most workshop manuals I have seen. Stopping distances for the models with Dunlop brakes is shorter than for the same models with Girling brakes.

I can only confirm this and so do others who own both 2nd and 1st series Fulvia's. Above homologation tests done by Lancia were of course done with new cars with new brakes. This is the point. It is costly to bring the Dunlop callipers in new condition after 40 years of neglect. I do several batches per year now. The results are excellent and they last longer than the original ones. The cost is high but not nearly as high as buying all new ones. The Dunlop brakes also need more maintenance than more modern brakes like the Girling brakes. This is the way it is. The older the car, the more the maintenance. The brakes are no exception.

Also the pads are important. Most modern friction materials are not compatible with the Dunlop brakes which were designed when pads used asbestos. The pads I stock are made of a modern asbestos free material which comes very very close to the rally quality of asbestos pads used in the 60's. Only at the very temperature extremes the old ones are superior. But this is really so much at the extreme that 999 out of 1000 people never get there, not even close.

One can also argue that the Super Duplex system is dangerous. I have experienced / heard of few cases of brake failure. Here are two. One happened to myself when driving a S1 Flavia. The right rear rim had grinded though the interconnect line. The duplex system worked perfectly. I was able to drive home using the front brakes.
The other occasion happend to a guy driving a Flaminia. He drove over a piece of steel wire which was on the road. The steel wire wrapped around the left front wheel and cut through the flexible brake hose. He was able to stop the car on the rear brakes. If this would have happened with series 2 Girling brakes both hoses would have been cut and the car would have been without brakes at all.

The handbrake of the S2 is excellent. The handbrake of the S1 is very close to that when in order. Assuming that all mechanical parts including cable move easily and freely there are several points to consider:
1. most handbrake pads are too worn. The deception is that they look like having plenty of friction material, but they havn't. Archimede would tell you that the pinchers have to hang positively (pointing slightly outwards) or at least the pads must hit the disc with their tops first. This way you can apply maximum leverage by using the length of the pincher. Most pads have worn such that their bottom parts hit the disc first. This way the pinchers do not function as levers and you will never be able to apply enough braking force.
2. there is a very simple trick when assembling the handbrake part. This trick is essential. If you don't know it, you will never be able to get the hand brake to work correctly
3. the adjustment is at the beginning rather cumbersome. When assembling the handbrake one has to fiddle with the horse shoe shaped spring to get the pinchers to hang at equal distances from the disc. This is impossible. But you can get very near to it. The last part of the adjustment has to come from wear. If the adjust screw is set such that the handbrake pads do not touch the disc, that wear will not happen. This is the reason for driving to the MOT with the handbrake on and re-adjust it around the corner from the MOT. The same result can be obtained by adjusting the handbrake in the way as described in 4.
4. adjustment is easy. One does not even have to take the wheel off. Jack up the car and rotate the wheel so that you can get to the adjust screw at the end of the pinchers through one of the holes in the rim. Turn the screw clockwise till you can just no longer rotate the wheel by hand. Back off the screw half a turn. If the pinchers are not equidistant from the disc one of the pads will scrape against the disc in a terrible way. Speak to yourself firmly, be brave and leave the screw at that setting. The problem will solve itself within a few miles. Repeat the adjustment a few times till you find it no longer needs the frequent adjustment. This only works when the trick of 2 has been applied.
5. Replacing handbrake cable or pads on S1 is easy. On S2 this is a lot of work. The hub has to be taken off which requires special tools. Every time the hub is removed and put back on there is a risk of damaging the wheel bearings. Many garagists working on modern cars assume that the bearing is damaged by taking it off and never put the old bearing back on.

I can only repeat that I am very happy with the reliability, performance and simplicity of the Dunlop brakes.