Cylinder head

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Orlando Lopes

Cylinder head

Unread post by Orlando Lopes »

Hello

I would like to know the minimum height admissible for a 818540 cylinder head.

Thank you
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Hello.

I have just measured a standard head here at the workshop on an engine I am building. This head has had just a clean-up skim and measures 85.92mm face to face. I presume that this is what you mean.
There is no specified thickness in the technical data book (well not in mine anyway). My own cylinder head has been extensively skimmed (not by me I hasten to add) having been reduced by nearly two millimetres... My block has also been skimmed as it was lined. With my high-lift camshafts, I use two head gaskets and I also have a bolt in the side of the block to prevent the timing chain tensioner going too far back. With one gasket the chain is too loose!

What is reason for your question?

Paul

Orlando Lopes wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I would like to know the minimum height admissible for a
> 818540 cylinder head.
>
> Thank you
Orlando Lopes

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Orlando Lopes »

Dear Mr Paul Leclercq

First of all thank you for your answer. It is a pleasure to be informed by a expert.
About your question:
When I bought my Fanalone, the guy that sold it gave me a lot of spares, the most of them from a Fulvia 1300 and some from a 1600. Among those bits there was a 818540 cylinder head, marked with date February 1970 on the side.
This cylinder head has been skimmed and I don't know how much.
In other side, among the documents he gave me there was several invoices ( bills ) from Roger Perry of Classico ( I think it is the actual Omicron ), where I notice that the man bought a cylinder head ( I presume it is the one of my car engine).
So I presume that the buying was due to the fact that the cylinder head, I have on the bench, is too much skimmed.
Well, I am going to measure and I will see.

Thank you one more time
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Dear Orlando,

You are welcome.

One way to establish if a 1600 head has been extensively skimmed is to look at the combustion chambers. These differ from the 1300 ones. At the periphery, there should be a sloping squish area. On a new head this is about 5 - 6mm wide. I have seen heads where this has almost completely been removed.

Roger Perry's company Classico ceased trading at Roger's death. The assets were purchased by Omicron.

Best wishes

Paul
Peter de Wit

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Peter de Wit »

Paul,
Interesting to read that you use two gaskets (with success?).

1) About the cams, how much lift do they give? I measured some cams last week and noted that the 1.6 and 1.3 cam have the axact same lift (65mm at the cam). I am quite sure the rockers are longer of the 1.6 to give more lift with the same cam. My documentation doesn't show this at all and it is quite some work to measure it. The rough number for the ratio of the rocker is 1.4, resulting in 91mm of lift on the valve or so.
2) Interesting mod with the tensioner. Would that help keeping the tensioner in place when timing you cams? I hate turning the block in one direction all the time and keeping the tensioner back really means help of another person. Dit you manage to keep it leak free?

Cheers,
Peter
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Hello Peter.

I was always under the impression that the rocker arm ratio was 1.5/1.

Anyway I have mislaid the data for the cams, but I recall that lift is about 10.5mm (everything is a bit close in my engine for the reasons given. The cams are timed 43/77/77/43 with 3.8mm lift at TDC.

In 22 years of Fulvia ownership I have never had a head gasket problem and almost invariably wherever possible I use second-hand gaskets!

When timing camshafts I leave the tensioner undone. The bolt is a cap screw, locked with a locknut. Finding a flattish portion of the block is virtually impossible so I coat the thread with silicone sealant and use a compressible copper washer under the lock nut.

Paul
Peter de Wit

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Peter de Wit »

Nice that you have a different figure for the rocker arm ratio. I will mount a valve in head in measure it. There must be a difference between the 1.6 and 1.3 ones.

The 43/77/77/43 figures are with the .40 mm valve clearance i suppose. That is quite wild isn't it. You have moved the 'center' of the cam to an earlier point than the standard 1.6's and just a bit less than the 1016. Furthermore you kept the exhaust symetric. I always wonder how to come to an optimum here. And it is not something you do at a dynojet either...

Below a pic of a recent effort to document 5 sets of cams that I had. One set has 10.5mm of lift.

Cheers, Peter




Image
Orlando Lopes

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Orlando Lopes »

Peter:

I found quite intersting the tools you use for cams tests.
Could you tell me where to buy those tools ( excluding obviously the personal computer ).
As I said to Paul I have several bits ( I think the most part from a 1300 Fulvia ), and among them 8 camshafts.I dont know if they are from a 1600 or a 1300.
Thank you
Orlando Lopes
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Peter,

Very sophisticated; I congratulate you.

The cams I am using are an early works profile that appers in my parts book: Part numbers:1109159 and 1109158 For 1600HF "Optional for sporting uses".

Here at Evolution Engineering we offer a wilder profile also based on an ex-works pattern These offer 11.3mm lift at 100 degrees. Timing is about 50/70/70/50.

They provide very good torque but make for noisy valve train though and idling whilst often OK is sometimes tricky with carburettors. No stock at present though.

Paul
Paul de Raymond Leclercq

Re: Cylinder head

Unread post by Paul de Raymond Leclercq »

Orlando; If the cams are from a S11.3S they are the same as 1600. Some s2 1300s had vernier cams which are also the same. Later types although the same profile are of the "one pin, one hole" type.

Early 1300 cams from 302 engines are stamped 818100; some 1600 cams (early) are stamped 818342 which is the 1300HF part number.

Paul
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