neophyte questions
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troy
neophyte questions
hello.I live in the southeastern united states & i'm possessed by the romantic urge to own a classic lancia.the cars are very rare stateside & a bit more costly than uk or euro prices,i have located one in seattle which i viewed while on holiday(asking price 17,500 usd)...but,the one i'm interested in is in wisconsin & can be viewed via online @ http://www.reinaintlauto.com/71lancia608.html---the asking price is $22,900 usd,i spoke w/ the owner Ignazio & he quoted 156 bhp!-how to tell if a "yellow head" is geniune & what is the significance of this "yellow head"?...is it common for the camcover to be painted & claims made to HF-ness?,supposedly it's rotfree,rebuilt trans & new clutch w/ throwout bearing & if you look at the pix it's in beautiful shape although the red paint appears a shade too light in the photos...could i use such a car for daily transport?...what are common ailments specific to this year/model?...what is the weight of these steel bodied zagatos?...thank you for reading this,i'm glad to find this resource as i lack information...is my wide eyed enthusiasm leading me down a jagged path?...any advice would be much appreciated.
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Michael
Re: neophyte questions
Hello Troy!
The Fulvia is definitely useable as daily transport. It is fairly hardwearing, reliable and can absolutely keep up with modern traffic. I have a 68 Coupe Rallye 1.3 that is a pleasure to drive all around Philadelphia.
You should check the resources on this website for areas to look at. I do not believe that there were any Zagato HFs built however. This, if I am correct, would make the car you are looking at much less valuable. Either way the price you mentioned seems way out of line for Fulvia in the US.
As an example, there was a gentleman in Mass who recently (1year) sold a true 1972 MonteCarlo for under 10,000$ and this car semed as solid as any I have seen.
Make sure you really check all the resources and know what you are buying.
Good Luck, and email me anytime I might be able to help.
MLK
The Fulvia is definitely useable as daily transport. It is fairly hardwearing, reliable and can absolutely keep up with modern traffic. I have a 68 Coupe Rallye 1.3 that is a pleasure to drive all around Philadelphia.
You should check the resources on this website for areas to look at. I do not believe that there were any Zagato HFs built however. This, if I am correct, would make the car you are looking at much less valuable. Either way the price you mentioned seems way out of line for Fulvia in the US.
As an example, there was a gentleman in Mass who recently (1year) sold a true 1972 MonteCarlo for under 10,000$ and this car semed as solid as any I have seen.
Make sure you really check all the resources and know what you are buying.
Good Luck, and email me anytime I might be able to help.
MLK
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alan cooper
Re: neophyte questions
you are quite right to want a Lancia as they are some of the most thoughtfully engineered cars you can buy and (at least in europe)their price is very low in proportion to their exceptional qualities.The car you have mentioned looks like a fulvia sport 1600 as it has the specific differences in the interior and the distinctive recessed door handles (1600 only) it does however seem to be quite expensive......and it is not (obviously)possible to assess its true condition.In my opinion you would be best advised to resist temptation and READ READ AND READ MORE on lancias and fulvia/flavia in particular to gain as much information on their subtlties as possible you will then have no trouble in trying to identify correct engines etc....as a start get hold of the fulvia and flavia collectors guide which has recently been reprinted this will be a small amount of money very well spent.
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Donald Osborne
Re: neophyte questions
Hi Troy-
I agree with the other responses that the Fulvia Sport is great car- As you can tell from my email address, I own a '67 1.3 Sport. It is one of the first steel/alloy cars built. As for the one you're considering in Wisconsin, I have this to say- The price is high, but the car LOOKS nice and the 1600 is the second rarest of all Sports. It's also the fastest of all Fulvias made. That having been said, unless the engine has been magically breathed on, it actually develops 114 hp(DIN)- the cars that ran in the Targa Florio had 148 hp... But- the yellow cam cover is correct. The 1.6 Sport has the same specs as the 1600HF (with the exception of the front suspension, which has some variance). The superior aerodynamics of the Zagato body gives the Sport a higher top speed. As for the driving characteristics, I'll quote the Lancia authority Wim Oude Weernink, in the British Lancia Motor Club Journal of Autumn 1977. He mentions their tendency to foul plugs in traffic (if you run the Champion R61 plugs), the need to replace the timing chain promptly at 30,000km and to check valve timing during adjustments every 10,000km. That having been said, he loves his.
I would recommend trying to find the following books:
1. Brooklands Books Gold Portfolio Lancia Fulvia 1963-1976
2. Le Zagato Fulvia Sport-Junior Z Michele Marchiano (Edizioni della Libreria dell'Automobile)
3. Lancia Motor Club (UK) Journal Autumn 1977
4. Lancia Fulvia HF e tutte le altre Fulvia: berlina, coupe e sport Enzo Altorio (Giorgio Nada Editore)
All the above are out of print, but that's part of the thrill of the chase, isn't it? The last on the list, the Altorio book, was seen on eBay about 2 months ago, so there are some out there.
Get to know as much as you can, and most certainly buy one of these cars!
All the Best,
Donald Osborne
PS- DO NOT buy the car from Seattle- email me privately if you want reasons why...
I agree with the other responses that the Fulvia Sport is great car- As you can tell from my email address, I own a '67 1.3 Sport. It is one of the first steel/alloy cars built. As for the one you're considering in Wisconsin, I have this to say- The price is high, but the car LOOKS nice and the 1600 is the second rarest of all Sports. It's also the fastest of all Fulvias made. That having been said, unless the engine has been magically breathed on, it actually develops 114 hp(DIN)- the cars that ran in the Targa Florio had 148 hp... But- the yellow cam cover is correct. The 1.6 Sport has the same specs as the 1600HF (with the exception of the front suspension, which has some variance). The superior aerodynamics of the Zagato body gives the Sport a higher top speed. As for the driving characteristics, I'll quote the Lancia authority Wim Oude Weernink, in the British Lancia Motor Club Journal of Autumn 1977. He mentions their tendency to foul plugs in traffic (if you run the Champion R61 plugs), the need to replace the timing chain promptly at 30,000km and to check valve timing during adjustments every 10,000km. That having been said, he loves his.
I would recommend trying to find the following books:
1. Brooklands Books Gold Portfolio Lancia Fulvia 1963-1976
2. Le Zagato Fulvia Sport-Junior Z Michele Marchiano (Edizioni della Libreria dell'Automobile)
3. Lancia Motor Club (UK) Journal Autumn 1977
4. Lancia Fulvia HF e tutte le altre Fulvia: berlina, coupe e sport Enzo Altorio (Giorgio Nada Editore)
All the above are out of print, but that's part of the thrill of the chase, isn't it? The last on the list, the Altorio book, was seen on eBay about 2 months ago, so there are some out there.
Get to know as much as you can, and most certainly buy one of these cars!
All the Best,
Donald Osborne
PS- DO NOT buy the car from Seattle- email me privately if you want reasons why...
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Erwin
Re: neophyte questions
Hi,
Complements on your choice of cars. Only 800 examples of the Fulvia Sport Zagato 1600 have been built. This version is, together with the first 200 all-aluminium serie, the most desirable of the Fulvia Zagato range. The price is rather high and should only be paid when the car is in perfect and original condition. The 1600 Zagato had the following unique features compared to the 1300 models:
- Black striping on the hood
- Doorhandles from the Alfa Junior Zagato instead of the normal ones
- An oil temperature gauge instead of a clock
- Electric windows
The pictures show that the car has been resprayed because all 1600's had a black striping on the hood, and the door trim is red and should be black. The engine-number of the correct 1600 should begin with 818.750 and they should have the typical yellow head cover. I don't recommend the 1600 as a daily driver. The enigine-parts are hard to get. For daily use you are better of with the 1300 model, which is far more easy to maintain and gives you only slightly less performance. And watch out for the rust. These cars, especially the late series 2 models (like the 1600), rust like crazy (I own a late series 2 1300 Sport Zagato, I know...).
Good luck.
Complements on your choice of cars. Only 800 examples of the Fulvia Sport Zagato 1600 have been built. This version is, together with the first 200 all-aluminium serie, the most desirable of the Fulvia Zagato range. The price is rather high and should only be paid when the car is in perfect and original condition. The 1600 Zagato had the following unique features compared to the 1300 models:
- Black striping on the hood
- Doorhandles from the Alfa Junior Zagato instead of the normal ones
- An oil temperature gauge instead of a clock
- Electric windows
The pictures show that the car has been resprayed because all 1600's had a black striping on the hood, and the door trim is red and should be black. The engine-number of the correct 1600 should begin with 818.750 and they should have the typical yellow head cover. I don't recommend the 1600 as a daily driver. The enigine-parts are hard to get. For daily use you are better of with the 1300 model, which is far more easy to maintain and gives you only slightly less performance. And watch out for the rust. These cars, especially the late series 2 models (like the 1600), rust like crazy (I own a late series 2 1300 Sport Zagato, I know...).
Good luck.
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Randy Adams
Re: neophyte questions
I can only add to the comments and advice given by the others. Please do not turn up your nose at a 1300 model Sport. You will never find a faster stock-spec 1300 cc car. And the engine is like a rorty sewing machine for smoothness. The 1300 engines have a better reputation for durability. The front wheel drive powertrain is fully equal to the 1300, whereas 1600 models were reported to suffer from torque steer.
Carrozzeria Zagato were not known for their great build quality or rust-proofing. However, the Fulvia is almost certainly the best quality production job Zagato ever did. I had a very rusty example (from the U.K.) on which the doors would still shut very easily. Be aware that the body parts on any Zagato car will be scarce. In the case of the earlier cars (the 1200s and 1300s), the tail lights were shared with the Lamborghini 350GT and 400GT. This does not exactly increase their availability.
My observation has been that 1300 Zagatos sell for criminally low prices in the U.S. You can probably get a decent one for less than $10,000.
Fulvias are beautifully easy to work on. I rebuilt the engine in mine without using an engine hoist! The engine comes apart in layers none of which was too heavy to just reach in and pull out (or put back in). As front wheel drive cars go, clutch replacement is straightforward--much easier than on an MGB.
The car will only make you happy. You will wonder how Lancia failed in the U.S. in the 1960s with such a perfect product.
And while it is totally different in the looks department, don't turn up your nose at a standard factory coupe. The coupes are much easier to locate parts for and are slightly better balanced for handling.
Carrozzeria Zagato were not known for their great build quality or rust-proofing. However, the Fulvia is almost certainly the best quality production job Zagato ever did. I had a very rusty example (from the U.K.) on which the doors would still shut very easily. Be aware that the body parts on any Zagato car will be scarce. In the case of the earlier cars (the 1200s and 1300s), the tail lights were shared with the Lamborghini 350GT and 400GT. This does not exactly increase their availability.
My observation has been that 1300 Zagatos sell for criminally low prices in the U.S. You can probably get a decent one for less than $10,000.
Fulvias are beautifully easy to work on. I rebuilt the engine in mine without using an engine hoist! The engine comes apart in layers none of which was too heavy to just reach in and pull out (or put back in). As front wheel drive cars go, clutch replacement is straightforward--much easier than on an MGB.
The car will only make you happy. You will wonder how Lancia failed in the U.S. in the 1960s with such a perfect product.
And while it is totally different in the looks department, don't turn up your nose at a standard factory coupe. The coupes are much easier to locate parts for and are slightly better balanced for handling.
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Huib Geurink
Exactly
Exactly my feelings too, Randy. I have two 1967 coupe rallye's 1.3, one 1976 coupe 1.3S, two S2 berlina's and one 1963 berlina 1C. I am still looking for the right Zagato (has to be 1967 or earlier) All (except the 1C, which is "under construction") are use extensively as daily transport, shopping around town, vacations to Italy and heavy historic rallies such as the 6 day Tulip Rallye. Every mile with a smile!
They never let me down and are totally capable of keeping up with modern traffic. It is only now that I realize how much ahead of their time they were then.I bought my first one new in 1970!
ALL people I know that bought used 1600's blew their engines within 3 months. These beasts have never been driven slowly and need very strict service and handling.
I find it on the other hand impossible to ruin a 1300 or smaller. The 1976 coupe I bought with quite a few miles and drove it another 60,000 miles befor I changed the engine. I did not change the engine because of wear as after my 60.000 miles it was exactly as when I bought it, but because I found a faster engine.
Enjoy the Fulvia and don't underestimate the 1200's either. Their gearing is a bit lower, so the acceleration is pretty good. Only top speed is a bit lower.
They never let me down and are totally capable of keeping up with modern traffic. It is only now that I realize how much ahead of their time they were then.I bought my first one new in 1970!
ALL people I know that bought used 1600's blew their engines within 3 months. These beasts have never been driven slowly and need very strict service and handling.
I find it on the other hand impossible to ruin a 1300 or smaller. The 1976 coupe I bought with quite a few miles and drove it another 60,000 miles befor I changed the engine. I did not change the engine because of wear as after my 60.000 miles it was exactly as when I bought it, but because I found a faster engine.
Enjoy the Fulvia and don't underestimate the 1200's either. Their gearing is a bit lower, so the acceleration is pretty good. Only top speed is a bit lower.