Hallo,
kann jemand den Scheinwerfer-Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum übersetzen. Vielleicht kann Huib eine Zusammenfassung (auch in englischer Sprache) schreiben.
Danke sehr !
Marius
Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
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Huib
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Ich mache spaeter ein Posting in englischer Sprache (in englische Forum). Warum gehts es dir genau?
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Marius Moise
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Hallo Huib,
danke für die sehr schnelle Antwort. Mein Scheinwerfer für Abblendlicht rechts hat ein Loch und ich brauche Ersatz (Fulvia Coupe S2 ´73). Es ist ein Carello Halogen, das Licht ist aber nicht besonders, deswegen dachte ich, daß die Cibie vielleicht besser sind.
Gruß
Marius
danke für die sehr schnelle Antwort. Mein Scheinwerfer für Abblendlicht rechts hat ein Loch und ich brauche Ersatz (Fulvia Coupe S2 ´73). Es ist ein Carello Halogen, das Licht ist aber nicht besonders, deswegen dachte ich, daß die Cibie vielleicht besser sind.
Gruß
Marius
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Huib
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
In your first entry, I noticed you gave me permission to reply in English.
The three top manufacturers of headlight units are Carello, Cibie and Hella. Carello was the first one I believe who introduced units for halogen bulbs.
I like to drive my Fulvia on country roads and try to avoid motorways. For this type of use I find the Cibie units just a bit better than the other two.The Cibie units are smarter in putting the light exactly where the driver needs it and also smarter in playing with contrast variations which makes it easier to see holes in bad roads and movement on the sides of the road.
I keep in stock two Cibie types (they cost 40 euro each):
1. H4 unit with parking light. It can be used for series 1 Fulvia and series 2. In series 1 it is connected exactly like the original Carello unit. The dipped beam as well as the main beam filaments are used.
On series 2 I connect only the filament for the low beam. Note that you have to buy sockets for H4 bulbs in this case.
2. H1 unit for main beam. It can be used on series 1 and series 2 Fulvia.
Some notes:
The bulbs are called 12V bulbs. This is a name and not a technical specification. They require 13,2 volts to operate correctly. The voltage regulator in a Fulvia should supply 14,1 volt. So, if you are careful with the losses in switches, wiring, connectors, fuses it is not too difficult to make sure the filaments are supplied with 13,2 volts.
The S2 wiring includes relais for low and main beams. If all connections are in good condition, you have no problem.
The S1 is different. The current for the low beams goes through a relay and through two fuses. If all contacts are in excellent condition, you may just about get 13,2 volts at the filaments. However, the current for the main beams (four lights of 55 to 60 watts thus almost 20 Amps in total!!!!!!) goes through the light switch on the dashboard as well as through a relay. You are lucky if 11 volts arrive at the filaments. You have to mount a relay for the 4 main beams and feed it directly from the battery or voltage regulator.
The S2/3 originally had a H1 unit for low (dipped) beam. H4 was simply not available at the time. H1 (and old fashioned duplo) low beam units have a hood in front of the bulb to prevent it from radiating light straight forward. That hood also reduces the efficiency of the main beam. H4 bulbs have a black top and a small mirror under the filament for the low beam. The hood is not necessary. In general H4 units produce better low beams than H1 or duplo units.
The main beam of an H4 unit is wide and short. The same is true for the old fashioned duplo units.
The main beam of a H1 unit is narrow and long.
The S1 Fulvia also uses a duplo unit for inner lights. This is not a low beam / high beam unit which happened to be used for main beam only. The hood is missing. It is not suitable for low beam. It is optimised for main beam. If the inner lights of a series 1 Fulvia are replaced with halogen units, they should be replaced with H1 main beam units.
Do not mount 100 watt bulbs in your headlights. It is usually counterproductive. The filaments of 100 watt bulbs are much bigger. Three quarters of the filament is out of focus. You will have a lot more light in front of you (unless the much higher current causes the voltage to drop, in which case the light output may actually be less) but less light where you need it. And remember, human eyes adjust to the brightest spot and thus see less in darker parts. You don't want more light, you want smart light and see the overhead road signs too. This is exactly where Cibie is a bit better than others.
The Fulvia head lights are about 50 cm from the ground. If you adjust the low beams to the maximum legal position, which is an inclination of 1%, you will thus light up 50 meters of the road ahead of you. A longer range is not possible for the low beams unless you mount them higher.
The three top manufacturers of headlight units are Carello, Cibie and Hella. Carello was the first one I believe who introduced units for halogen bulbs.
I like to drive my Fulvia on country roads and try to avoid motorways. For this type of use I find the Cibie units just a bit better than the other two.The Cibie units are smarter in putting the light exactly where the driver needs it and also smarter in playing with contrast variations which makes it easier to see holes in bad roads and movement on the sides of the road.
I keep in stock two Cibie types (they cost 40 euro each):
1. H4 unit with parking light. It can be used for series 1 Fulvia and series 2. In series 1 it is connected exactly like the original Carello unit. The dipped beam as well as the main beam filaments are used.
On series 2 I connect only the filament for the low beam. Note that you have to buy sockets for H4 bulbs in this case.
2. H1 unit for main beam. It can be used on series 1 and series 2 Fulvia.
Some notes:
The bulbs are called 12V bulbs. This is a name and not a technical specification. They require 13,2 volts to operate correctly. The voltage regulator in a Fulvia should supply 14,1 volt. So, if you are careful with the losses in switches, wiring, connectors, fuses it is not too difficult to make sure the filaments are supplied with 13,2 volts.
The S2 wiring includes relais for low and main beams. If all connections are in good condition, you have no problem.
The S1 is different. The current for the low beams goes through a relay and through two fuses. If all contacts are in excellent condition, you may just about get 13,2 volts at the filaments. However, the current for the main beams (four lights of 55 to 60 watts thus almost 20 Amps in total!!!!!!) goes through the light switch on the dashboard as well as through a relay. You are lucky if 11 volts arrive at the filaments. You have to mount a relay for the 4 main beams and feed it directly from the battery or voltage regulator.
The S2/3 originally had a H1 unit for low (dipped) beam. H4 was simply not available at the time. H1 (and old fashioned duplo) low beam units have a hood in front of the bulb to prevent it from radiating light straight forward. That hood also reduces the efficiency of the main beam. H4 bulbs have a black top and a small mirror under the filament for the low beam. The hood is not necessary. In general H4 units produce better low beams than H1 or duplo units.
The main beam of an H4 unit is wide and short. The same is true for the old fashioned duplo units.
The main beam of a H1 unit is narrow and long.
The S1 Fulvia also uses a duplo unit for inner lights. This is not a low beam / high beam unit which happened to be used for main beam only. The hood is missing. It is not suitable for low beam. It is optimised for main beam. If the inner lights of a series 1 Fulvia are replaced with halogen units, they should be replaced with H1 main beam units.
Do not mount 100 watt bulbs in your headlights. It is usually counterproductive. The filaments of 100 watt bulbs are much bigger. Three quarters of the filament is out of focus. You will have a lot more light in front of you (unless the much higher current causes the voltage to drop, in which case the light output may actually be less) but less light where you need it. And remember, human eyes adjust to the brightest spot and thus see less in darker parts. You don't want more light, you want smart light and see the overhead road signs too. This is exactly where Cibie is a bit better than others.
The Fulvia head lights are about 50 cm from the ground. If you adjust the low beams to the maximum legal position, which is an inclination of 1%, you will thus light up 50 meters of the road ahead of you. A longer range is not possible for the low beams unless you mount them higher.
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Marius Moise
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Thanks Huib for the very comprehensive description. You´re doing a great job!
Actually, I have a Carello spare headlight for my broken one but like I told you, I´m not satisfied with the light. What about Siem? My other (main) headlights are from Siem.
Cheers
Marius
Actually, I have a Carello spare headlight for my broken one but like I told you, I´m not satisfied with the light. What about Siem? My other (main) headlights are from Siem.
Cheers
Marius
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Huib
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Thank you for the compliment.
Siem is about the same as Carello.
If you are not happy with the lights, there are several things to consider.
Voltage at the filament is extremely important.
E.g. if the voltage is
13,2 volt then light output is 100%
12,5 volt light output is 83%
12 volt light output is 67%
11,2 volt light out put is 50%
As I said you may loose voltage in the wiring to the bulbs. Also consider the return path of the current through the body. Quite often I find the wire connecting engine / gearbox to the body missing. If so the return current will go through the choke cable which is not a good electrical connection.
Consider the light unit as a precision optical unit. After more than 30 years of service it is likely that the light transmission of the glass has dropped considerably (chemical change of the glass due to weather and UV light, dirt, damage). Same for the reflector.
If the bulbs are old the filament may have sagged a bit and is thus no longer in focus. Also the efficiency of the bulbs may have dropped.
I always use the Philips Vision Plus bulbs. These people are professionals and you can be sure that the filament is in the right place. I don't like the blue vision by the way. I think these are a commercial trick to imitate Xenon HID lighting. I suspect the blue colour is achieved by filtering out the complementary colours. The light output is thus less.
Siem is about the same as Carello.
If you are not happy with the lights, there are several things to consider.
Voltage at the filament is extremely important.
E.g. if the voltage is
13,2 volt then light output is 100%
12,5 volt light output is 83%
12 volt light output is 67%
11,2 volt light out put is 50%
As I said you may loose voltage in the wiring to the bulbs. Also consider the return path of the current through the body. Quite often I find the wire connecting engine / gearbox to the body missing. If so the return current will go through the choke cable which is not a good electrical connection.
Consider the light unit as a precision optical unit. After more than 30 years of service it is likely that the light transmission of the glass has dropped considerably (chemical change of the glass due to weather and UV light, dirt, damage). Same for the reflector.
If the bulbs are old the filament may have sagged a bit and is thus no longer in focus. Also the efficiency of the bulbs may have dropped.
I always use the Philips Vision Plus bulbs. These people are professionals and you can be sure that the filament is in the right place. I don't like the blue vision by the way. I think these are a commercial trick to imitate Xenon HID lighting. I suspect the blue colour is achieved by filtering out the complementary colours. The light output is thus less.
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Marius Moise
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Thanks again, Huib, I will check the voltage and the grounding connection between engine and body thoroughly (I don´t know yet where it is but why do I have your excellent CD´s for?). As for the bulbs, you are perfectly right, I use since several years now the equivalent from Osram in my Lancia Dedra and I´m very satisfied with. I´ll keep you in touch with the results of the investigation.
Ciao
Marius
Ciao
Marius
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Marius Moise
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
Guys, it took a while but last week-end I got the time to measure thoroughly the voltage at the front bulbs and Huib was perfectly right: 9,7V from 12,4 V at the battery. The grounding though is OK, so I have to check now every contact between the battery plus and the bulbs, apart from changing them to new ones, which I did already.
Thanks again Huib for your help.
Cheers
Marius
Thanks again Huib for your help.
Cheers
Marius
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Huib Geurink
Re: Cibie Beitrag aus dem holländischen Forum
You don't say whether this is for the low beams or the high beams.
You loose almost 3 volts in the wiring. I suspect it is the main beams you are talking about.
The original design is basically wrong. In those days the main beams were 4 bulbs of 45 watts. The current is thus about 15 amps, which goes through the light switch on the dashboard.
The red 6mm2 wire from the voltage regulator goes to the fuse box. Then a wire goes to the light switch. This is already too many connectors and the 6mm2 wire is shared with other users of electricity.
I solve the problem by installing a relais (25Amp minimum rating) next to the original relay. Feed the relay through an extra 6mm2 wire from the voltage regulator. Use the old relay to switch the new one. The output of the new one goes to the two fuses for the main beams.
What I do with the low beams depends on the application. For every 5% increase of voltage the life expectancy for light bulbs is halved. If the car is used in countries where one drives with the low beams on all day, I aim for 12,5 to 13,0 volts. For normal use I aim for 13,0 to 13,4 volts. For rally use I aim for 13,5 to 14,0 volts
You loose almost 3 volts in the wiring. I suspect it is the main beams you are talking about.
The original design is basically wrong. In those days the main beams were 4 bulbs of 45 watts. The current is thus about 15 amps, which goes through the light switch on the dashboard.
The red 6mm2 wire from the voltage regulator goes to the fuse box. Then a wire goes to the light switch. This is already too many connectors and the 6mm2 wire is shared with other users of electricity.
I solve the problem by installing a relais (25Amp minimum rating) next to the original relay. Feed the relay through an extra 6mm2 wire from the voltage regulator. Use the old relay to switch the new one. The output of the new one goes to the two fuses for the main beams.
What I do with the low beams depends on the application. For every 5% increase of voltage the life expectancy for light bulbs is halved. If the car is used in countries where one drives with the low beams on all day, I aim for 12,5 to 13,0 volts. For normal use I aim for 13,0 to 13,4 volts. For rally use I aim for 13,5 to 14,0 volts