International Lancia Forums

Hello everyone. I just purchased a 1967 Lancia Flavia Vignale
Convertible. Its a diamond in the rough. She needs interior and
exterior work, but she'll be my new labor of love. I look forward to
sharing my experiences with you. However, I need your help already.
The car seems to be running very hot, to the point of overheating,
and I was hoping someone might be able to give me some insight on
what to look at.

Thanks.

Ted

First check is whether your radiator thermostat is working
It operates the shutters in front of your radiator, if it is broke, the shutters do not open and your engine runs hot.
Look under the bonnet when the engine indicate that it is hot, feel whether the radiator is hot (be careful not to burn yoursself) and check wheter the shutters have opened, if not disconect them from the thermostat and fix them in open position. (they are spring loaded)

If radiator is relatively cool when engine runs hot, the main thermostat is defective
but generally these things break in the open position

If the thermostats (so as you will have gathered a Flavia has 2) are OK then go for all the things that you would do on a normal car (flusshing of radiator and engine)

Also check your ignition timing, if it is wrong an engine tends to run hotter

Hello Ted,
I completely agree with Bert's reply, but I would like tell you some things about Flavia 815 coachbuilder made (Pininfarina-Vignale-Zagato). These cars have their cooler shortened in height to permit better front tapering. In fact on the contrary of sedan, their water coolers have the height shortened to permit lowering of the hood. You could notice the fan shelter, in your car, covering fan blades and overpassing the upper water tank, whereas sedan upper tank wrap up fan blades. This meaning sedan cooler block is fully ventilated, coachbuilder cars having their block partially ventilated. I own a 815 coupè 1.8 in Rome and can say its cooler works well when car is running (if slowly), overheating begins to appear after five\ten minutes of summer queues. A previous owner removed slats and thermostat on my car and also I knew a guy, having a 1.8 coupè iniezione with same overheating problems, deprived from these ones by his workshop! I did put an auxiliary fan (working as extractor) on the left side of the engine bay, but have not yet checked it in summer queue. Also in the front cover of an old RuoteClassiche there is a picture of a Flavia Zagato, racing Targa Florio, having a big auxiliary fan instead of front grille. If you and other Lancisti like to have the little study I did over my Flavia coupè cooler, I can send it for free (via e mail).
Follow first Bert’s tips. Ciao, Carlo.

Carlo,

Thanks so much for your help. I am very much interested in the study you did on the cooler for your coupe. I will be working on the car this weekend and I suspect Bert's advice will do the trick. I must say I am quite jealous of where you are. You don't get to see many Lancias, Maseratis, Ferraris or even Alphas where I live in the US, just too many BMW's.

Regards.

Ted

Hello Ted,

I can't say more than Bert and Carlo said, but just give you my short experience on overheating. I also have Flavias, a coupé and a convertible, both equiped with an injection engine, and I used to have overheating problems on my coupé (I remove the thermostat after it broke closed !) and it only runs with the radiator shutters, but the problem is not completely solved, and I'm sure that the radiator and crankcase condition must be the cause of the trouble ; My Vignale does not have the same problems but it has a rebuild engine (completely cleaned) and a radiator in good condition.
Carlo is right, Flavias are not designed for queuing.

If I can help you with pictures or whatever you want about Vignale's interior, let me know.

Regards

Florent

Florent,

Thank you for your help. I am very interested in any pictures you may have of the Vignale's interior. It appears that a few things are missing (shifter boot, etc...). Any pictures of the exterior would be very helpful as well.

I will try to keep her on open roads only!

Regards.

Ted

Hello to all of you guys,
I’m sending the simple study (only the first page of the car diary) I made about my ’64 Flavia 815.330 . Following tips given by Bert and Florent, I have to say:
-Lancia, only in his last owner manuals, advised to flush 815.300\400 engines with a solution of chlorine acid (missing in previous ones), then flushing it with bicarbonate of soda (I felt safe flushing mine only with bicarbonate);
-1968 Lancia’s spare parts catalogue describes for 815.330\430(built after 1965), a water cooler having the header tank “over fan blades” (if you look carefully at the voices), but last coupès made I could see in Rome, had the lowered radiator we all know; hence I had no chance to find that one to improve my coupè water cooling;
I think Lancia actually had some rumor about coachbuilt 815 penchant to overheating (in those days Italian towns began having jam packed traffic), but had no time or money to solve this problem. I will be greatly pleased in hearing the voice of someone working at Lancia in those days, stating if I am right in my assertion.
Ciao, Carlo

Carlo,

Just an other question about Flavia cooling system : not all the Flavias I know (french ones) have the radiator shutters fitted (but the injection ones I know are equiped with it), is there any reason for that ? As far as I know, it is not related with the year the car was built, so, was it related with the destination of the car (ie north/south europe) ?

Ciao

Florent

in 1968 I bought my first Lancia, a Flavia coupe Iniezione. The previous owner had removed the wing mirror and the radiator fan to make it go faster. I never put the radiator fan back in. I drove it for a few years including many trips to cities such as Amsterdam and Paris. It never suffered from overheating. Only very occasionally in Paris I had to lay over for 15 minutes to let the car cool down.

At present I am running only 5 Fulvia's and an Appia. My Flavia Vignales still have to be restored.

One has to assume that the radiator is bad on a car from the sixties. In the sixties coolant was not available. Water was used. After more than 30 years the system is guaranteed to be full of sludge. As I do not want to play russian roulette with the cooling system, it is my standard practice to have a new core put in the radiator as well as the heater and change the hoses at the same time to remove as much sludge as possible from the system in one sweep to avoid quick fouling of the new rad. Apart from that I like my cars to be hot inside in the winter.
Also the heater should be on stand by as an effective emergency measure to cool down the coolant in case temp starts to rise in difficult places such as the Gottard tunnel were the temperature in the center of the tunnel is about 6 degrees higher than outside the tunnel.
The rubber diafragm in the heater cock should also be replaced to make the heater effective and avoid tears and thus quick loss of coolant.

Only the 1961 Appia had a radiator which was still like new inside when the rad shop opened it. They quickly closed it. I suspect the previous owner already had the core replaced. Nevertheless, the Appia seemd to have a temperature problem. After 10 minutes or so the needle started to rise. The cause of the rising needle was the temperature sender. After changing the sender the needle never rose over book value.

With most of my Fulvia's I had temp problems. When I drove a 2C from Livorno to Holland it overheated most of the time even with he heater full on.
After putting a new radiator core, new heater block, new thermostat and new hoses the problem was definetely gone. The watertemp needle stayed rock steady at the right place no matter what traffic conditions or outside temperatures were. All Lancia's (that is Fulvia's, Flavia's and older, I don't know about later models) should be capable of coping with traffic jams and high outside temperatures at the same time. If not, something is wrong.

The early sixties thermostats usually (but not always) fail closed. Later thermostats usually (but not always) fail open.
I prefer the Wahler thermostats. The standard Lancia version has become difficult to get. However one can use the Wahler 3029.83 hose thermostat as used on Renaults. It costs less than 15 euro's. Stick the sensor part in the right direction, which is into the thermostat house and put a tie wrap around the hose where the thermostat sits to avoid leakage along the sides.

Flaminia's often suffer from sludge in the water channels around the cilinders. In fact so much that it reduces waterflow causing over heating. I have not heard of similar problems with a Flavia.

The engine oil is important for cooling too. If the car has an oil cooler, make sure the thermostat opens. Also keep the bottom of the sump free from dirt.

I would agree with Huib on this. My experience has always been that the pre-fiat designs always had an excess capacity of cooling designed in which ,if anything, leads them to run too cold; if they run hot it is a sure sign that there is a problem somewhere. My 2000HF, which is still using its original radiator as far as I can see , takes a long time to reach the far side of the guage when at idle and earlier cars with shutters rarely seem to open them but still remain cool enough.