Hi,
Me and my Kappa are back with our issues.
1. I refilled the Climatisation installation and now (like 1-2 hours afterwards) I've got some kind of a leak underneath the car, somewhere in the middle of the front part (I mean, it's not underneath the radiator, more like under the engine). Is it possible that some hose is broken and freon is leaking out? As far as I know, freon is a volatile gas, so it shouldn't condensate, should it?
2. I've been experiencing some strange behavior from the car when idling. While waiting at the traffic light, with all the electricals on (lights, stereo, A/C), the battery indicator drops somewhere to 11V (first mark after 9V) and the car starts to shake slightly - the displayed rpm is about 500 rpm/m. If I press the acceleration a bit, the indicators (rpm and voltage) go up (rpm == 700-800 rpm) and the shaking stops. This issue only occurs while running on LPG and only recently, should I worry about it?
A/C and idling issues
-
Karsten
Re: A/C and idling issues
Have had problems with the A/C too... had to be refilled 2 years in a row because the dealer couldn't fint the leak. Turned out the A/C radiator had a tiny tiny leak and after it got switched no problems (I hope).
I searched on "www.hotstuffworks.com" >>> http://home.howstuffworks.com/ac1.htm
From what I can read freon does condensate into a liquid in the A/C's process.
At least the two dealers that have been looking at our Kappa pumped some kind of "tracking gas" into the A/C system and then using a UV-light to locate the leak... didn't really cost that much for a refill (but of course the A/C radiator could always have been cheaper
I try always not to be idling when I turn on the A/C. When idling and turning on the A/C I can surely see and hear the revs drop a bit (but only a 100 rpm or so) and the voltage indicator drops a bit too.
500 rpm sounds very very low indeed?
I searched on "www.hotstuffworks.com" >>> http://home.howstuffworks.com/ac1.htm
From what I can read freon does condensate into a liquid in the A/C's process.
At least the two dealers that have been looking at our Kappa pumped some kind of "tracking gas" into the A/C system and then using a UV-light to locate the leak... didn't really cost that much for a refill (but of course the A/C radiator could always have been cheaper
I try always not to be idling when I turn on the A/C. When idling and turning on the A/C I can surely see and hear the revs drop a bit (but only a 100 rpm or so) and the voltage indicator drops a bit too.
500 rpm sounds very very low indeed?
-
Adrian
Re: A/C and idling issues
Thanks a lot, Karsten!
After the initial panic, I started thinking. Being a car-newbie, I tend to be paranoid about any noise, leak, move - basically, about everything. After I started thinking, I remembered the wall-mounted A/C at work - which does have a big pipe for the condensed water, so I said to myself the water leak I saw could be the "exhaust" of the A/C apparatus. This does make sense, but I would be really interested if someone with more technical knowledge than me could confirm for sure that the A/C releases the condensed water straight away (somewhere underneath the car, in front of the gearstick).
If not, I will wait for a few more days, to see if the A/C still works. If not, I probably have a big leak somewhere.
The most annoying thing is the complete lack of power when running with A/C on (and using LPG, to be honest). I expect the car to be "lazier" when using LPG instead of benzine, but it seemed like it turned into a fat old person. Is this normal? Any suggestions?
The idling frequency has always (since I got the car, I mean) been like that - 500 rpm when running on LPG. I have to look at the gauges to make sure the engine is still on!
However, more worrying is that the engine is "struggling" when idling with A/C on - 500-550-600-500-600-550 rpm, the needle is bouncing back and forth.
After the initial panic, I started thinking. Being a car-newbie, I tend to be paranoid about any noise, leak, move - basically, about everything. After I started thinking, I remembered the wall-mounted A/C at work - which does have a big pipe for the condensed water, so I said to myself the water leak I saw could be the "exhaust" of the A/C apparatus. This does make sense, but I would be really interested if someone with more technical knowledge than me could confirm for sure that the A/C releases the condensed water straight away (somewhere underneath the car, in front of the gearstick).
If not, I will wait for a few more days, to see if the A/C still works. If not, I probably have a big leak somewhere.
The most annoying thing is the complete lack of power when running with A/C on (and using LPG, to be honest). I expect the car to be "lazier" when using LPG instead of benzine, but it seemed like it turned into a fat old person. Is this normal? Any suggestions?
The idling frequency has always (since I got the car, I mean) been like that - 500 rpm when running on LPG. I have to look at the gauges to make sure the engine is still on!
However, more worrying is that the engine is "struggling" when idling with A/C on - 500-550-600-500-600-550 rpm, the needle is bouncing back and forth.-
Adrian
Re: A/C and idling issues [update]
In the meanwhile, I found out the English name for that "exhaust" = "A/C drain tube". Anyone has an Owner's / Service manual in English or French, so that I can check its position? Thanks.
-
Karsten
Re: A/C and idling issues
I have experienced the 500-600 rpm struggle a few times before, but in my case it had nothing to do with A/C. As far as I remember I had to accelerate quickly for a second or two (1st gear), and then florred clutch making the engine instantly drop from 3000-4000 revs to idle. I think I had to get to an available parkingspot first ... but the needle dropped to 500-600 rpm and seemed like bouncing from these extremely low revs to idle forward and back (as far as I remember idle is about 750-800 rpm in a Kappa 20VT). I gently stepped on the throttle and it seemed like that helped the cars computer regain control or whatever?
Perhaps your A/C pump needs to be replaced or refurbished. Surely seems like the engine has to really struggle to keep it going?
Last summer when the leaky A/C radiator was replaced we also had the A/C pump replaced (with a refurbished one = half price), because it had been squealing like a pig for 2 months. Some bearing had simply given up.
... but the needle dropped to 500-600 rpm and seemed like bouncing from these extremely low revs to idle forward and back (as far as I remember idle is about 750-800 rpm in a Kappa 20VT). I gently stepped on the throttle and it seemed like that helped the cars computer regain control or whatever?Perhaps your A/C pump needs to be replaced or refurbished. Surely seems like the engine has to really struggle to keep it going?
Last summer when the leaky A/C radiator was replaced we also had the A/C pump replaced (with a refurbished one = half price), because it had been squealing like a pig for 2 months. Some bearing had simply given up.
-
Karsten
Re: A/C and idling issues [update]
How big a leak are we talking about?
Surely it does sound reasonable that it has got something to do with the A/C since it nearly cuts your engine when you turn it on.
Can't really help you on the petrol-question. Have always been using what we in Denmark call "95" or something like that (mainly from Shell because its the local petrol station).
Surely it does sound reasonable that it has got something to do with the A/C since it nearly cuts your engine when you turn it on.
Can't really help you on the petrol-question. Have always been using what we in Denmark call "95" or something like that (mainly from Shell because its the local petrol station).
-
Adrian
Re: A/C and idling issues
I kind of solved my concerns about the leak - it was pretty big right after filling with freon, but I think that can be also blamed on the fact that I washed the car right afterwards; then some tiny spot overnight, then not much today - probably because the air is less humid.
No issues with idling today, I read somewhere that the computer "learns" the proper values for rpm after some interval of functioning - it's kind of normal, considering I've been driving without A/C for a few weeks (about 1000-1500 km), to assume that the computer has "learned" to keep the idle at a certain frequency, then have problems when A/C is on, until it "learns" again. I'll give it a few more days and then get back to the shop if the car malfunctions.
One other issue: I've got a whining sound whenever I turn the steering wheel - it's not like metal-on-metal, more like a low-frequency "meow". The sound is stronger as the speed at which I do the maneuver is lower - barely audible if doing it at 60+ km/h. Any ideas?
No issues with idling today, I read somewhere that the computer "learns" the proper values for rpm after some interval of functioning - it's kind of normal, considering I've been driving without A/C for a few weeks (about 1000-1500 km), to assume that the computer has "learned" to keep the idle at a certain frequency, then have problems when A/C is on, until it "learns" again. I'll give it a few more days and then get back to the shop if the car malfunctions.
One other issue: I've got a whining sound whenever I turn the steering wheel - it's not like metal-on-metal, more like a low-frequency "meow". The sound is stronger as the speed at which I do the maneuver is lower - barely audible if doing it at 60+ km/h. Any ideas?
-
Karsten
Re: A/C and idling issues
Well must have something to do with the servo... check if you got enough fluid in the container.
It's hidden under a plastic cover between front window and engine - top right corner if you stand in front of your car. (You still need to open the hood to get to it).
The servo fluid is always kind of pink as far as I remember?
Another idea could be that the fluid needs to be changed completely.
Think of driving a car without servo. The faster you go the easier you turn the wheels.
Same think goes for the servo-system. The faster you go the easier it can turn the wheels (less "meow").
Few weeks back I thought there was some problem with the servo on our car, but after listening carefully it turned out that it must be some plastic thingy or whatever just behind the spot where the steering wheel is connected. I rarely hear it. sounds like a tiny "squek" when driving at very low speed, so I haven't really put myself together yet to pickup the screwdriver
(sorry for all the grammar mistakes and so on... english ain't my 1st language)
It's hidden under a plastic cover between front window and engine - top right corner if you stand in front of your car. (You still need to open the hood to get to it).
The servo fluid is always kind of pink as far as I remember?
Another idea could be that the fluid needs to be changed completely.
Think of driving a car without servo. The faster you go the easier you turn the wheels.
Same think goes for the servo-system. The faster you go the easier it can turn the wheels (less "meow").
Few weeks back I thought there was some problem with the servo on our car, but after listening carefully it turned out that it must be some plastic thingy or whatever just behind the spot where the steering wheel is connected. I rarely hear it. sounds like a tiny "squek" when driving at very low speed, so I haven't really put myself together yet to pickup the screwdriver
(sorry for all the grammar mistakes and so on... english ain't my 1st language)
-
Adrian
Re: A/C and idling issues
Hello Karsten and thanks a lot for the reply.
Based upon the current strange noises, I have compiled a list of potential repairs:
- fix exhaust (the final drum is slowly falling away, as the retention thing is no longer in place, I need to have it adjusted somehow), after I managed to hit it I think twice while rearparking.
- check and replace servo fluid (car has gone over the 175.000 km barrier recently, I only had it since 170.000, so I have no idea about previous changes) - if the "meow" doesn't go away, what's next?
- replace rollbar, as per advised here, during to some strange bumping noises.
In the last few days, the idling issue is coming up again, this time with a noisier tac-tac-tac which seems to be coming from somewhere underneath the car. I tend to blame it on the exhaust quaking (see above), but is it normal to hear and feel it from inside the car, when sitting in the drivers' seat? Moreover, it comes and goes every now and then, when idling or driving etc...
PS: don't worry about your English, it's great. Actually, I think quite few owners here are native speakers, at least in the Kappa area, given the brief presence of the model in the UK market.
Based upon the current strange noises, I have compiled a list of potential repairs:
- fix exhaust (the final drum is slowly falling away, as the retention thing is no longer in place, I need to have it adjusted somehow), after I managed to hit it I think twice while rearparking.
- check and replace servo fluid (car has gone over the 175.000 km barrier recently, I only had it since 170.000, so I have no idea about previous changes) - if the "meow" doesn't go away, what's next?
- replace rollbar, as per advised here, during to some strange bumping noises.
In the last few days, the idling issue is coming up again, this time with a noisier tac-tac-tac which seems to be coming from somewhere underneath the car. I tend to blame it on the exhaust quaking (see above), but is it normal to hear and feel it from inside the car, when sitting in the drivers' seat? Moreover, it comes and goes every now and then, when idling or driving etc...
PS: don't worry about your English, it's great. Actually, I think quite few owners here are native speakers, at least in the Kappa area, given the brief presence of the model in the UK market.
-
Karsten
Re: A/C and idling issues
Most likely your car is running on its 2nd exhaust...
Rear and middle piece got changed just after we bought the car 3 years ago (75.000km). It's from 1999 so I surely hope we are not running into the same problem anytime soon again (now 130.000km).
But then again here in Denmark salt as smeared all over the roads because we have a relatively long period during winther with frosty roads... cars really really tend to dislike that.
A mechanic from an Alfa dealership in Denmark once wrote in the Danish Lancia Club forum, that the Kappa had been seriously coated and sealed from the factory (against corrosion and so on). He had only seen one car that was better - the Audi A6.
Ok perhaps he hasn't been looking at too many Porsches but who cares
Remember that something like exhausts always "dissapear" before the rest of the car does. They get so darn hot that they no coating could stick to em. There is always the "stainless steel" exhaust but I have only heard about that for the Integrale.
Rear and middle piece got changed just after we bought the car 3 years ago (75.000km). It's from 1999 so I surely hope we are not running into the same problem anytime soon again (now 130.000km).
But then again here in Denmark salt as smeared all over the roads because we have a relatively long period during winther with frosty roads... cars really really tend to dislike that.
A mechanic from an Alfa dealership in Denmark once wrote in the Danish Lancia Club forum, that the Kappa had been seriously coated and sealed from the factory (against corrosion and so on). He had only seen one car that was better - the Audi A6.
Ok perhaps he hasn't been looking at too many Porsches but who cares
Remember that something like exhausts always "dissapear" before the rest of the car does. They get so darn hot that they no coating could stick to em. There is always the "stainless steel" exhaust but I have only heard about that for the Integrale.