Max advance to use with 123 bluetooth ignition

[DavidB.Lancisti]

With a bluetooth 123 ignition installed, what is a recommended advance curve to use for a series 2 Lancia Fulvia 1.3S? It seems that the engine would be able to take more than just a 16 degree total advance, however what is the safe total advance so as to not create any preignition? Thanks for any advice.

[Huib]

The limit is not so really pinging. The limit is the flexing of the crankshaft. The Fulvia has a short engine. The crankshaft has only 3 main bearings. It flexes a lot more than the crankshaft of a 4 in line engine with 5 main bearings. Stick to the max static advance from the manual:
8 degree for non nitrated crankshafts
10 degree for nitrated crankshafts (HF's only)

Nitrating gives 1 to 1,5 mm hardening.

On customer request we harden crankshafts 4 - 5 mm. And, surprise, doing just that and balancing plus special pistons reduces loss due to vibration and friction so much that one can keep the engine standard. Perfection gives me more joy than speed or raw power. And the engine lasts much longer.

[DavidB.Lancisti]

HI Huib,

Thanks so much for your reply, much appreciated.

I wasn't referring to the static advance, which I am keeping at 8', rather the maximum total advance as the engine revs to the higher rpms. The stock spec for this is a total of 16', however I have seen posts where this can be increased safely to 24' or even 27' (total) without negative effects. I have set this to 22' and have noticed that it seems to rev much more smoothly and with more power at the higher rpms. What are your thoughts on safely increasing the max total advance? It is easy to program the 123 ignition to do this.

Thanks, David

[Huib]

Sorry, David. When I did the testing the 123 did not exist. If I wanted 10 degr more advance at high rev, I turned the distributor 5 degr ccw. Engines hardly fail at low rpm. I drove it some weeks with static advance at 19 degr thus total advance 34 degr. Until I went to the Dolomites with 15 other Fulvia's. When climbing on a hot day the engine quit at 2000m altitude. All other Fulvia's no problems. I changed back to factory settings and never had a problem again.

5 years ago I tried hardening the crankshaft 4 to 5 mm. Power increased, even at the settings for a standard engine. Since then I respect the power which is lost to flexing. It is a long time ago I rode a bicycle. I do remember that if I stepped on the pedal when the pedal was at the top I ruined the crankcase. Applying power at 90 degr is most efficient. Something similar happens in the Fulvia engine. If combustion finishes when the piston is still near the top the destructional force component is high while it contributes next to nothing to the rotation power. Early ignition will ruin the center main bearing first and if severe also the front and rear bearing.

The engine should run smooth with standard settings. If not check carbs, fuel pressure. The available new fuel pumps are a disaster. Take out the rubber valves inside and add a valve at input and output. Use a valve with a spring loaded stainless steel ball inside. Take a short piece of copper brake line. Close it with solder. Drill a hole in it and put it in the return line. Experiment until the fuel pressure is 0,19 bar. The hole usually is 0,4 mm. You need a set of drill bits under 1 mm. Make sure the fuel hoses are ethanol resistant.

Set the gap of NGK BPR7ES (or equivalent) plug to 0,6 mm. Important!!!! Don't touch the electrodes of the NGK BPR7EIX.

I refuse to set the advance on a customer's car earlier than the book value. It is part of the difference between 500.000 km and 50.000 km. I never use the vacuum versions.