S1 front suspension torquing front suspension

[lancia7550]

Hi, I have just replaced (on my S1 coupe) the front upper and lower wishbone bushes, spring buffers, shock mounts and anti-roll bar bushes.

I am looking for the height to set the suspension before torquing everything up. In the S1 workshop manual the only reference I can find is to "setting the front spring" at 15mm between the bump stops and lower wishbone. Does this also apply to torquing the suspension bushes? It seems like a very small travel distance, or is this not where the suspension will settle?

I currently have the subframe removed from the car and have a suitable tool to compress the spring and hold it in place safely.

Thanks

[racing]

If i remember well, the S1 front suspension bushes are designed to rotate free. So you are not able to fix them in a special position.

It is different to S2. They are not free to rotate.

regards Andreas

[Huib]

Andreas is right. The S1 has bushes that need to be greased and can turn freely. If you are again using the old style bushes, just torque to the right value and check if there is no play and the wishbones can swing without friction.

If you have converted to the S2 silent blocs, the matter is different. Let me know if you did convert.

The 15 mm is the distance between bump stop and wishbone for torquing the 4 + 4 bolts holding the front spring. It is important to do this right. If not you risk swivelling of the spring.

Under the spring is a tray with cut outs for the spring. Check that the cut out is not much wider than the spring. Sometimes there is wear. When torquing the 4 long bolts the spring has to be absolutely horizontal. The six leaves have to be one straight piece of steel in the center. Torque the bolts.

If the spring is slightly bent you will not be able to torque it rightly. The bolts are not strong enough to pull the spring straight. And the torque is not equal on the 4 bolts. Any indication of torques on your tool is meaningless if there is still a spring action in the path.

This requirement ended up in the book as putting it in a position with 15 mm between wishbone and bump stop. There are more instances in the Lancia books where I have the feeling that the book was written by a student and not by the guy who does the job. It is of course always possible that I am wrong. So keep the eyes open and put the question here.

A bit of a problem are the two shackle blocks in the rear. The imitation ones are no good. They don't last as long as the original ones and they are not strong enough to fiddle with to set the caster all right. I have found a manufacturer who can make exact copies of the original with the same quality of natural rubber. The tooling cost is a bit too much for me. If some want to join in splitting the tooling cost ..... let me know.

I already have the silent blocs for the wishbones made with the right internal construction and the right quality of rubber. Most on the market are bad. The tooling cost is not that high, It is just that there are only two per car (Fulvia and Flavia). The silent blocs are eight per car.

Also take the canvas hardy disc for the steering through an x ray machine. There should be spring steel segments on both sides of the center layer. Most imitation ones do not have the spring steel (0.2 mm thick) inside. They tear quickly (few months) resulting in the car going straight when turning the steering wheel.

[lancia7550]

Thanks Huib,

I have converted to S2 bushes on the lower arms. I bought the kit a few years ago as the S1 type bushes were not available. They are however now readily available. For the top arms I used S1 type bushes.

So for the lower bushes I will need to set them at the correct height. I might change them back to S1 type later as they are so beutifully engineered (and the lower bushes are easy enough to replace).

I installed a Mercedes rubber steering disc as I could not find good quality repro canvas discs. The rubber disc is a bit stiffer than the canvas, but I have not noticed any ill effects - in fact the steering feels very reassuringly direct.

[Huib]

Original bushes at the top and silent blocs at the bottom is the case on many S1 cars I think. Nothing wrong with it unless the wrong quality silent blocs.

The distance between bump stop and wishbone for torquing the bolts at the bottom wishbone that is quoted in the DT is for the S2 Fulvia. On the S2 the bump stop is at the end of the (upper) wishbone. For the S1 the bump stop is at half way of the (lower) wishbone. So the distance should be half the distance as quoted for the S2. I compare that with the center of travel of the lower wishbone. Top of travel is determined by the bump stop. Bottom of travel is determined by the shock absorber. And triple check with the wishbone in horizontal position.

I also have the Mercedes disc in my coupé. It is less subtle than the original disc. On my 2C I still have the original disc. I had a large piece of canvas laser cut into the canvas discs and also a piece of 0,2mm stainless spring steel cut into the 90 degree segments. I haven't solved the gluing yet.

[Ofpoets]

Hopefully I'm able to ask a question here - I cannot find an area for where I might be able to post a new topic on suspension issues (I'm not a paid member of the Lancia club so this might be the reason why)

Have just rebuilt the subframe on an S3 Monte carlo replacing all the silent blocs, balljoints, dampers etc replacing like for like - the suspension blocks below the leaf spring are 70mm (the same that came off of it originally). I haven't torqued any of the suspension nuts and through bolts up yet however the front of the car with engine, gearbox etc installed now sits about 5/6 inches off the tyres on both sides! Whereas before it had a great stance and was no more than 2 inches and now looks more akin to a 4x4 ! I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this might be. Everything appears to be installed correctly.

Plan was to install everything, let it settle and then torque all the nuts/bolts up however at current height I can't even stretch the damper sufficiently to bolt it together.

Any advice appreciated and apologies for hijacking this thread

[Huib]

To let it settle you have to drive it. Over bumps as well. And brake hard several times.

Can you upload a phote taken from the side?

[lancia7550]

I usually find it to be high after jacking it up for suspension work etc., but that pushing down on, say, the front cross member with your body weight settles it down quite a lot. If you replaced the front spring lining especially it may take a little time before settling down. Is it sollid when you push down on it, or can you feel the front spring compressing/ decompressing? If it is solid something might be preventing it from moving.

[Huib]

If you lift the front the wheels move inward. If you put them on the ground again they have to move outward which is not possible without turning.