Dear Lancisti,
browsing the Internet I found the list of colors used by Lechler for the Lancia cars.
I hope it will be useful for the restoration of our beloved Lancia.
Best regards,
Sandro
Lancia color
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Alessandro reghini
- Posts: 504
- Joined: 03 Jun 2010, 07:21
Lancia color
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Re: Lancia color
Beware because this is an old list. You must state where you found it, when it has been written and which paints are (nitro, toluene, water, etc.)
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Alessandro reghini
- Posts: 504
- Joined: 03 Jun 2010, 07:21
Re: Lancia color
Dear Paolo,
the list is dated 2011 (old?) from Lechler and I already said that I founded it in internet. (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/ ... xpress/243).
About which type of paint I don't think you can choose much today (probably pastello is the most common used to date), but you can order the exact color made when your car was born.
Beware of what? please explain.
Regards,
Sandro
the list is dated 2011 (old?) from Lechler and I already said that I founded it in internet. (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/ ... xpress/243).
About which type of paint I don't think you can choose much today (probably pastello is the most common used to date), but you can order the exact color made when your car was born.
Beware of what? please explain.
Regards,
Sandro
Re: Lancia color
Sandro -
Thank you for posting this, but Paolo is right - there are complications here. The idea that a specification (paint system and color) matches 1950s cars "exactly" is not totally right. It may hit some of the main points of the original paint but its unlikely to be totally simple. Meaning, you can't just get that system, put it on and assume "instant factory paint color".
Why? For several reasons. First, the original paints were by other manufacturers - Max Meyer, and in some cases, others. Then there were changes in the paint systems themselves - today urethane paints are common, but these are not the same as lacquer or enamel paints in the past. In the 1960s, Lancia themselves were engaged in changing paint systems, and sometimes listed different types of paints for their cars.
There is also the matter of sheen - the reflectivity of the paint. Very little is done on this subject, but the gloss of the paints differ, and its very hard to know what was original. Urethane looks different than lacquer, although a good top end shop can get them close.
Paint color is another issue. Lechler first published their chart of "historical paints" c. 1991, and you can see it here: http://blog.lanciainfo.com/?s=lechler
No one (as far as I know) has tested their colors against the original paints, although I am told they spent serious time trying to get this right. Your later list seems more extensive, and is possibly even more accurate - the earlier list was rather complicated. But we don't know - someone (!) could get paint swatches made and start to compare? I' rather interested in the different bianco saratogas, and Lancia blus that are listed. And not to mention grey! Keep in mind that (as far as I know) no one has found a cross index from Lechler to the Max Meyer or PPG paints used at the time. So the question is out there: how did they make this list?
Finally, knowing what the original paint was turns out to be a challenge as well: I have an original paint chips from the period, and its clear they too have faded and changed color. So what is original?
All to say there is a fair distance between Lechler's list and an "exact color when you car was born". They are to be applauded for their efforts to keep historic paints alive, and to provide this service. Its possible their paints (and finishes) are very very close, maybe even right on. But we don't know.
Hope this helps -
Geoff
Thank you for posting this, but Paolo is right - there are complications here. The idea that a specification (paint system and color) matches 1950s cars "exactly" is not totally right. It may hit some of the main points of the original paint but its unlikely to be totally simple. Meaning, you can't just get that system, put it on and assume "instant factory paint color".
Why? For several reasons. First, the original paints were by other manufacturers - Max Meyer, and in some cases, others. Then there were changes in the paint systems themselves - today urethane paints are common, but these are not the same as lacquer or enamel paints in the past. In the 1960s, Lancia themselves were engaged in changing paint systems, and sometimes listed different types of paints for their cars.
There is also the matter of sheen - the reflectivity of the paint. Very little is done on this subject, but the gloss of the paints differ, and its very hard to know what was original. Urethane looks different than lacquer, although a good top end shop can get them close.
Paint color is another issue. Lechler first published their chart of "historical paints" c. 1991, and you can see it here: http://blog.lanciainfo.com/?s=lechler
No one (as far as I know) has tested their colors against the original paints, although I am told they spent serious time trying to get this right. Your later list seems more extensive, and is possibly even more accurate - the earlier list was rather complicated. But we don't know - someone (!) could get paint swatches made and start to compare? I' rather interested in the different bianco saratogas, and Lancia blus that are listed. And not to mention grey! Keep in mind that (as far as I know) no one has found a cross index from Lechler to the Max Meyer or PPG paints used at the time. So the question is out there: how did they make this list?
Finally, knowing what the original paint was turns out to be a challenge as well: I have an original paint chips from the period, and its clear they too have faded and changed color. So what is original?
All to say there is a fair distance between Lechler's list and an "exact color when you car was born". They are to be applauded for their efforts to keep historic paints alive, and to provide this service. Its possible their paints (and finishes) are very very close, maybe even right on. But we don't know.
Hope this helps -
Geoff
Geoff Goldberg
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
Re: Lancia color
I completely agree with Paolo and Geoff. Regardless of manufacturer, there are good reasons not to trust any set of "exact color made when your car was born" codes. Even if it's the original paint manufacturer using their original formula, it won't be identical. As Geoff suggests, 40 years on, the paint systems use very different binders. Perhaps even more so, the pigments have completely changed, as standards for toxic materials have eliminated many of the heavy metals that were the basis for many colors back then.
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Alessandro reghini
- Posts: 504
- Joined: 03 Jun 2010, 07:21
Re: Lancia color
Dear Geoff and Ed,
The list that I posted is not a bible, but it can be helpful.
Some of us have bought cars with colors that do not seem original, others, during the restoration of the car, found more colors and do not know which one can be the original.
With this list at least you can know if, at the time when the car was made, this particular color existed or not.
With regards to your statement I agree with you up to a point, because we can discuss a lot without end.
The fact is, that to date, we cannot have the true original color since we do not have any sample to compare. (I don’t think anyone is in possession of a piece of metal with the original base and paint perfectly preserved in a vacuum compartment and in absence of light); so even if you find the exact formula and material there is no way we can be sure that the result is correct, it will only be a presumption.
Furthermore there are many others factor that impedes the perfect result, such as:
1) The refineries changed process in producing products, hence the modern nitro is not exactly the one made 40 or more years ago and this goes for all their products.
2) Same story is for the oxides, pigments and resins used for normal or metallic paint.
Hence, even making the paint using the original materials and formula the result will be different, not much, but not exactly the same as the original, and with less protection to corrosion that can offer a modern package. (This in my view is one thing to take into consideration after spending good money in restoring the body).
In short, whoever said that, “ perfection doesn’t belong to this world“ is very right.
Taking in to consideration all the above and the fact that Lechler is a reputable Company, I have chosen to use this table for the restoration of my Flaminia, I believe the color will be very close to the original without spending time in trying to reach an impossible target.
Here is another site that can be interesting: http://www.standox.com/content/dam/EMEA ... Cars_I.pdf
At the sametime I would like to say that I admire persons who try hard to achieve the best possible result and only wish them success.
Finally, should you have a better list which can be useful to me and others Lancisti, please post it, I am willing to give it a try.
Best regards,
Sandro
The list that I posted is not a bible, but it can be helpful.
Some of us have bought cars with colors that do not seem original, others, during the restoration of the car, found more colors and do not know which one can be the original.
With this list at least you can know if, at the time when the car was made, this particular color existed or not.
With regards to your statement I agree with you up to a point, because we can discuss a lot without end.
The fact is, that to date, we cannot have the true original color since we do not have any sample to compare. (I don’t think anyone is in possession of a piece of metal with the original base and paint perfectly preserved in a vacuum compartment and in absence of light); so even if you find the exact formula and material there is no way we can be sure that the result is correct, it will only be a presumption.
Furthermore there are many others factor that impedes the perfect result, such as:
1) The refineries changed process in producing products, hence the modern nitro is not exactly the one made 40 or more years ago and this goes for all their products.
2) Same story is for the oxides, pigments and resins used for normal or metallic paint.
Hence, even making the paint using the original materials and formula the result will be different, not much, but not exactly the same as the original, and with less protection to corrosion that can offer a modern package. (This in my view is one thing to take into consideration after spending good money in restoring the body).
In short, whoever said that, “ perfection doesn’t belong to this world“ is very right.
Taking in to consideration all the above and the fact that Lechler is a reputable Company, I have chosen to use this table for the restoration of my Flaminia, I believe the color will be very close to the original without spending time in trying to reach an impossible target.
Here is another site that can be interesting: http://www.standox.com/content/dam/EMEA ... Cars_I.pdf
At the sametime I would like to say that I admire persons who try hard to achieve the best possible result and only wish them success.
Finally, should you have a better list which can be useful to me and others Lancisti, please post it, I am willing to give it a try.
Best regards,
Sandro
Re: Lancia color
Quite right. It is tough to find the right colour with todays paint systems.
My Appia (now sold) had three different colours if one looked carefully.. Part still the original nitro paint and the other two the results of repairs over the years. I am sure everybody did his best to closely match the original colour but it is just impossible.
Thanks Sandro, for contributing a piece of the puzzle.
My Appia (now sold) had three different colours if one looked carefully.. Part still the original nitro paint and the other two the results of repairs over the years. I am sure everybody did his best to closely match the original colour but it is just impossible.
Thanks Sandro, for contributing a piece of the puzzle.
