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Soweit ich informiert bin ist der 2.0 Softturbo im Thesis vom Prinziep her der gleiche Motor wie der 20V Turbo im Kappa. Ebenso soll ja der 3,2 V6 der selbe wie im Alfa 156 GTA sein. Leider haben ja beide Motoren im Thesis einiges weniger an Leistung. Mich würde es nun interessieren was an beiden Motoren geändert wurde und ob es technisch möglich wäre diese wieder auf ihre alte Leistung zurück zu rüsten.
Ich habe nicht vor ne Kirmesbude mit Chiptuning, Sportluftfilter, erleichterten Pleuls oder sonstigen aus nem Thesis zu machen sondern würde gerne nur wissen ob und wie man ihm seine eigentlich schon vorhandene Leistung wieder gehen könnte.

The main difference is in the car weight. Than 2.0 liter turbo in thesis has smaller turbocharger than in kappa. Yes it has variable geometry, but two liter engine is it's limit, it's the biggest engine it can handle. The 3.2 liter in thesis has a bit changer map, but the biggest brake is the automatic gearbox.

Hi Vlad,

As you already pointed out, the Thesis 2.0 20V turbo has a smaller turbocharger than the one fitted to the Kappa. Therefore the Thesis 2.0 20V turbo is also called Turbosoft. Have there been changes to the inertia of the engine as well? Are Camshafts, cylinders, pistons, valves and crankshaft the same for Thesis and the Kappa? What kind of Bosch ECU is responsible for the engine management? Is it the Motronic 2.10.4 like in the Kappa?

I am not quite sure if I understood correctly, but are you saying that for the automatic transmission of the Thesis the power of the 3,2 V6 had to be limited? This doesn't sound right... The AW55-50SN should be capable of 420Nm and the Thesis 3,2 V6 produces 289Nm, the 156 GTA makes 250HP and 300Nm... So plenty of room there... Or are you saying that the automatic transmission is burning power as it is a torque converter? That is most certainly right, but those power figures are engine power figures and those are not measured at the wheel, but directly at the engine- so the transmission does not play a role here...

So... What happend to the 20 ponys and the 11Nm of torque of the GTA? Why haven't they found their way into the Thesis? Would power and torque find their way into the Thesis just by a simple remap of the ECU, or were there some more changes made to the engine?

Cheers,

pelle

Hi,
the 2.0 liter turbo engine itself should be all the same as the one in kappa as I know except the mentioned turbo (and maybe the petrol injectors). As you are asking about the ecu, in thesis it's different. All petrol engines in thesis have bosch motronic me 7.3.1. It's some kind of a hybrid ecu.
It seems that you are putting together two things I've said, but I didn't mention it that way. On think is that the torque converter reduces power on the wheels and the other think is that the V6 in thesis has lower power than in gta. To be correct the 55-50 can handle 500nm. I know one thesis with auto trans and 500nm on a chipped multijet from brera. It was chipped by my friend to that torque because it's the trans limit. So in thesis it's not reduced because of the trans. My opinion is that it was reduced because of the engine characteristics where fiat wanted lancia to be a luxury brand and the extreme reactiveness of the original map didn't match this idea and who wants to drive fast should buy alfa. I'm planing to change the soft in my ecu to the 250hp, if the engines are all the same than it's possible, my friend can do it but first I have to check that the petrol injectors have the same fuel flow. If they do than the engines are alllllllllllll the same. But in my case that would be done together with installing, virginizing and pairing the new keyless bodycomputer with all the cables, sensors and switching unit with two different petrol ecus, the original one and another new one which will be remapped so I will keep the original one for the future when I put the car to the garrage under the cover. Till than I have a planty of time because I'm also gonna change the whole roof with the solar one, than install the webasto, double glasses etc. I have everything already on stock, just need a lot of time to finish that. Simply said, I can't tell you when I'm gonna test the new ecu map to make you 100perc sure it's a good idea.

Hello Pelle, hello Vlad,
the Aisin aw55-50SN is only capable for 350 Nm torque power. This is the reason why Lancia limited the torque for the 175hp Mjet to 330Nm whereas the manual 6 speed gear box 175Mjet was able to go for 400Nm. It´s a similar picture when you are looking at Saab and other Manufacturers where this gearbox was used.
Best
Bob

I think pelle has the info from wiki what is not a trusted information source. Where did you find the 350nm value? The official saab documentation says the max trans torque is exactly 510nm. And I think if it would be only 350, what is quite little, than the 500nm would damage the trans after a few full throtle accelerations. And it's still working for about two and a half year.

Hey guys,

Yes, I got the figures from Wikipedia. Even if the torque rating of the tranny is at 350Nm it should easily be able to handle the 300Nm of the GTA. I think the 230HP/240HP (Alfa 166) version is solely for differentiation of the models and thus between sporty/luxury - Alfa/Lancia. Maybe the 230HP is running a bit smoother and thus is more in line with the luxury image of Lancia.

Ciao, Michel